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Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:hmm, i dont have the patients to think it out with all of them but i can tell you that distortion then chorus is 1000x better than chorus then distortion
not always.
the actual pedals in question make a huge difference…
if it’s a really bright sounding chorus, i think it sounds better before distortion;
if it’s a ‘warm’ sounding chorus, then i’d put it after.(it depends on the distortion pedal too of course.)
Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:I mostly agree with Kevin, that would be the way I would do it too. But I always put the Big Muff in front of my overdrive, because that way you get a more different sound when you have them both on.. But that is just a matter of taste of course…Enjoyed reading your blog by the way, pretty much is my vision on pedalorders too! Could be helpful for lots of people!
thanks for reading. :thumb:
in most cases, i prefer overdrive->Big Muff unless it’s a ‘transparent’ overdrive, in which case i’ll put the OD after. i think the most important thing is for people to try arranging their pedals themselves, just to see how much difference it can make in terms of sound.
Kevin DemuthMemberfirst and foremost, welcome to the forum Jamie. :thumb:
i’ve recently started writing a pedal-centric blog, and one of my articles addresses pedal orders… maybe have a read of that… there’s a little bit which talks about putting dirt pedals in order too… http://effectextra.blogspot.com/2010/03/hung-on-line-like-poison-spider.html
with your pedals specifically, i’d put the PH-3 Phaser near the start of your chain; before the CS-3 unless it’s too noisy there, then i’d put it after the CS-3.
with your dirt pedals, i’d go:
BOSS BD-2 BLUES DRIVER
BOSS OS-2 OVERDRIVE/DISTORTION
BOSS DS-2 TURBO DISTORTION
EHX BIG MUFF PImy own preference with the POG2 is to put it after distortion/fuzz, but it may be worth trying it between the DS-2 and Big Muff…
same thing with the EQ-20 – i’d probably put it in amongst the dirt pedals; i usually like EQ before a Big Muff but after overdrives/distortions.i like tremolo after delays – as it sounds ‘clearer’ that way; if you have tremolo going in to delay it can end up sounding really messy…
same thing with other modulation (chorus and flanger)…
but as your plan is to have two delays, i’d put all of your modulation (besides the PH-3) between the delays so you have lots of options.also, just a little note about the flanger… sometimes distortion->flanger can sound TOO metallic, so you may want to try the flanger before one or two of your dirt pedals.
if i were using your pedals, i’d go something like this:
Guitar
BOSS PW-10 V-WAH [x]
BOSS PH-3 PHASE SHIFTER
BOSS CS-3 COMPRESSION SUSTAINER[BOSS NS-2 NOISE SUPPRESSOR] Send>
BOSS BD-2 BLUES DRIVER
BOSS OS-2 OVERDRIVE/DISTORTION
BOSS DS-2 TURBO DISTORTION
BOSS EQ-20 ADVANCED EQ
EHX BIG MUFF PI
[BOSS NS-2 NOISE SUPPRESSOR]BOSS FV-500H VOLUME
EHX DELUXE MEMORY MAN XO
BOSS BF-3 FLANGER
BOSS CH-1 SUPER CHORUS
BOSS PS-5 SUPER SHIFTER
BOSS TR-2 TREMOLO
BOSS DD-6 DIGITAL DELAY
EHX CATHEDRAL REVERB
AmpKevin DemuthMemberi’m reluctant to post this, as it’s quite upsetting, but it may help people understand some of what Sport Relief is about.
Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:tried a proco rat out today it sounded very very very bright even with the fiter down. The guy plugged me into a bass amp i dont know why but i really want to like it cos it’s had so many good reviews. i used a american strat ( i’ve got a humbucking guitar im an idiot for not using a humbuckig guitar) so does not sound as good with single coils or something?I know Alex Turner uses/used one
bass amps are trebly so that’s why the Rat sounded like that.
(guitar amps/speakers only output a very limited range of frequencies, and most of the treble is filtered off. bass and keyboard amps have a MUCH wider frequency range.)ProCo Rats are great pedals and very versatile.
Kevin DemuthMemberof course, I don’t know the costs involved in research and development and then manufacturing, so it could be done for sure.
at this point, I’d just like to say that I DO see the benefit of having MIDI-syncable pedals, and admit that it would at times be useful…
however, it wouldn’t be my preference… I kind of prefer it when tempo/time-based effects are a little out, with some drift in timing – it makes things sound more natural and ‘organic’.
if I were into sequenced (and/or pattern-based) music I would probably feel differently.but again, my main argument against MIDI implementation on pedals, is from (what I assume to be) the manufacturers perspective: it makes little sense in adding features (which would increase prices) to your products if the majority of your customers wouldn’t use them*.
… there must be a reason why there are so few pedals with MIDI.
however, if there was ever a company which would cater to a niche market, then it would be EHX.
* there is probably a high percentage of guitarists who don’t even know what MIDI is!
Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:Actually, with midi you wouldn’t need to add features, because it’s all controlled from your laptop. You could have all your modulation pedals set to sync at whatever rate you like. It just depends on what software you use. So all that would be needed (as far as I know) would be a midi in/outin the case of a tempo based effect such as tremolo, delay, chorus etc., the effect would need to receive MIDI clock information telling it the overall tempo in beats per minute…
the effect would then need to determine the note length (8th notes, 16th notes etc) it uses in relation to the MIDI clock info.so, yes… the effect would need a MIDI input, but that input has to be attached to something (ie. a little computer inside the pedal) to process the data it receives.
all of the effects i have which accept MIDI have options to set the sub-divisions of the tempo received via MIDI clock.
so, like i said, these are all features which lots of people wouldn’t use which would obviously increase the price of the effect.
all of the pedals that immediately come to mind with MIDI sync options are already pretty expensive.Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:With a Midi controller you could sync all of your digital pedLs with a single click.And you could change the tempo of all your modulation pedals at once.
And if you used something like Ableton Live, you could sync it all with loops or whatever you wanted, and change it all on the fly
you could sync your tempos with the drummer, or sync several instruments together. The possibilities are endless with midi sync
but what if for example, you wanted your delay doing 16th notes, your tremolo doing 8th notes, and your phaser cycling every 4 bars?
you’d need to add further controls to each pedal to allow this…all of these features will – as i said earlier – bump up the price; perhaps putting the pedal out of a potential buyers price range.
… and the features would only be used by a fraction of users.
… and you’d also need to have some kind of midi clock source too.Kevin DemuthMemberExpression control for a tremolo would be pretty cool…
definitely for the depth; that would be pretty handy, but i’m not so sure about for speed… it would depend on the tremolo circuit and its range of speed; something like a Pulsar – with it’s touchy rate control – would be a real pain to control with an expression pedal.
maybe have a provision to define the slowest and fastest speeds, and then have an expression pedal work within that range.
i’m not so sure about MIDI in (guitar) pedals – how many guitarists even know what MIDI is let alone use it?! 😆
it perhaps wouldn’t make sense from a design/production sense – having a feature that only a small number of potential buyers would use…
and it would (needlessly for those who don’t need MIDI sync options) bump up the price.Kevin DemuthMemberthe Tokai series 1 pedals (the black ones) are the ones that collectors seem to prefer.
the series 2 don’t tend to sell for so much; £30-40 is the usual from what i’ve seen.
there have been a couple of these delays on ebay UK recently, one (in not very good condition) went for £27, another (in great condition and boxed) went for £38.probably not the sort of prices you were hoping for.
what kind of condition is yours in?
PM me if you like with a photo (if possible), and i may be interested in taking it off your hands. :thumb:
(i have a few other 80s, MIJ analogue delays and am kind of interested in how this one compares.)Kevin DemuthMemberthe closest i’ve got to that sort of sound (with guitar) was using a Zoom Ultra Fuzz… with both the ‘gate’ and ‘resonance’ up quite high.
why don’t you just buy a Stylophone?
you can get one for less than £10 from Amazon. (i’ve got one; it’s pretty cool!)Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:Thanks to Kevin for helping me out.no problem. :thumb:
that’s a really cool set up you have there;
what do you think of the Gristle King? i haven’t heard much about them before.
which Boss delay is that? DD-6?Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:Here is what im working with now, Cant get my pic yo upload so I will just tell you for now…you need to use a photo hosting site such as Photobucket or Imageshack.
Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:Quote:(…) the Korg Pitchblack is a bit smaller and has true bypass (…)Not quite: http://www.stinkfoot.se/andreas/diy/articles/tuners.htm
???
the Pitchblack IS true-bypass… and is stated as such in the article you linked to…
???
Kevin DemuthMemberQuote:Ha, nobody prefers digital because it is a tone killer!well, less than half of the people who have voted (so far) prefer analogue.
i voted ‘no preference’.
i have digital and analogue delays, modulation and pitchshifting pedals – there are of course some differences but then there are differences between two analogue delays for example.
i have a digital rack effect unit which has a superb distortion section.i have a Digitech PDS-2715 distortion/chorus which i love; the chorus part is digital – i would not even have known that if i hadn’t read the manual.
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