Ok cool, this is consistent with what I’ve been seeing. So the trick (for me) is just to make sure it gets a play command when I first start everything up, and I’ll be good to go from then on.

Thanks a ton for your time and helping me clear this up. I still plan to do some experiments tonight so I’ll post my findings just for academic purposes / future readers.

Thanks for jumping in on this thread Flick.

This is where I’m confused. When slaved to the Eventide TimeFactor, AND receiving MIDI clock, it still waits. Meaning, when its in NEW LOOP mode (flashing footswitch LEDs) and I press REC, instead of starting to record like it normally does, the Tempo LED flashes rapidly and it continues to wait. Then if I press REC a second time, it goes, but it no longer listens to the MIDI clock.

I confirmed that it was receiving the MIDI clock signal. It would even update when I tapped in a new tempo on the TimeFactor. The Factor pedals send out MIDI clock constantly, and (except for the Looper on the TF) they do not have “play” commands or a “playback” state the way a normal MIDI controller might.

My understanding is that it MIDI clock alone does not suffice, it must also receive a PLAY/START command (I believe it’s referred to as a “START COMMAND” in the manual). Or the MIDI master must be currently playing back (not just sending clock).

From my experience, with my setup, the 2880 doesn’t begin to operate the way you describe until after I do my little hack.

Can you shed more light on this? I suspect its just an issue with my Factor pedals and if I used a normal MIDI controller it might work differently, but I still haven’t gotten a chance to test this…

I am doing a similar thing with on the fly looping to a drum machine (ableton actually) and I can tell you how I do it.

First, one thing that was a PIMA at first is that the 2880 (when slaved) won’t start recording a new loop when you tell it to. It waits for that external signal to tell it to start. Presumably this is so it can match the first beat of the measure?

Normally you hit the New Loop switch once, it goes into a wait mode (flashing lights), then starts recording when you hit Rec (or at the beginning of the next measure, when quantize is enabled).

But if it’s slaved to something that is sending MIDI clock but is not in a PLAY mode (such as my Eventide stompboxes) it goes into a second WAIT phase, with rapidly flashing TEMPO light indicating that it’s waiting for a play command from the Master. You have to press the Rec switch a second time to override it, and then it just reverts to its onboard settings. It works but it’s wonky, and it won’t receive tempo updates after that, nor can you restart playback after it’s been stopped.

Seems like it was designed to work with external transport cues anytime its MIDI synced. But what I wanted was to just give it clock, and control everything else normally, with the footswitch. This is what I was talking about in my above post. / / /

I figured out a trick to make it work but I’m still not entirely sure WHY it works. My theory is if you can fool the 2880 into thinking its MASTER is in a PLAY state all the time, it will cooperate.

HOWEVER, you may not need to do this at all, as long as your drum machine actually IS in a play state. I never tested it with Ableton (my 2880 is slaved to a pedal) but I think if the timeline was playing, I would get the same thing.

In this state, I CAN stop and start the playback freely on the 2880 using the footswitch. But it’s basically the same as muting the playback because it keeps playing in the background and resumes at its current position when you press PLAY again.

Bottom line, it works. Now that I’ve gotten this little trick figured out I am able to do all kinds of on-the-fly looping synced with Ableton and my delays. Tempo updates cascade through the devices fairly quickly, so even if I speed things up it maintains sync fairly well. (Keep in mind this will alter the pitch of the loop playback). Note that my master clock source never sends a stop command to the 2880, once I’ve gotten them lined up, I leave them that way (in a constant PLAY state) until I am done playing.

What you’re talking about is possible I think, but perhaps not exactly in the way you’re hoping. I will do some testing when I get home and see if I can replicate a setup like you’re describing. I don’t know what would happen if you pressed STOP on the master and started it up again, if things would still be in sync, but I will try to test it for you.

If you are willing to control the PLAY/STOP/REC functions from your MIDI master, you may actually be able to start/stop in a more normal fashion, but it may also introduce new problems by sending conflicting messages (like if you wanted to start a drum loop but NOT start the 2880).

My feeling right now is you’re going to have to keep both devices playing and send track mute commands etc. to “start and stop” the looper. If you want to stop the drums, you could program a silent drum loop and trigger it.

@Strut – After I get the 2880 into “eternal play mode” (or whatever you want to call it) the play button starts and stops the loop instantaneously (no quantizing).

It stays in sync, but it’s just picking up wherever in the loop the Master happens to be, so it’s actually kind of like bypassing the 2880 (or turning off the “wet out”). I am definitely able to start/stop it at will without glitch.

When used normally, the 2880 will let you start recording a new loop without a start command from the MIDI master, you just have to tap the REC switch a second time. However, if you stop playback, it will NOT let you play the loop again without an external start command. You have to start another new loop. Kind of a pain.

I will see about testing you CF card idea once I pick up a second one… my guess is that it would work but if the loops were of a different length or tempo you might have probs.

It’s a shame this thread didn’t go further, because I was about to make the exact same post as the OP before I searched and found it.

When slaved, I want the 2880 to simply start recording at the next measure, I do NOT want it to wait to receive a start command from the external source. At least it should be an option.

I’ve been working with this for a couple of days now, trying to send it “play” and “record” commands from Ableton and a Novation SLmkii while it was in “wait mode” (when the Ext. Clock light is flashing rapidly). I didn’t have much success with that, and it’s not the type of setup I wanted anyway.

But today I figured out an interesting hack using my Eventide TimeFactor. This may help, even if you don’t own one, so read on. I am curious to know why this works.

Using the TimeFactor as the 2880’s external clock source:
1. Turn on Ext. Clock and Quantize on the 2880
2. Press “New Loop” button. The 2880 should now be on standby to receive a play command.
3. Turn the TimeFactor to “Looper” Mode.

This causes the 2880 to jump into play mode with a one measure loop playing and the REC button flashing rapidly. Once this is done, the 2880 will function as described above, with the footswitch remaining in control. You can stop the loop and start new ones, etc. It will continue to work until it is turned off. Once you cycle power you will need to do the process again.

Using this trick I am able to record new loops on the 2880 all I want and use any mode on the TF and it seems to keep sync and work well. New loops are created the normal way (as if it were using internal clock) except that it the tempo is controlled externally. This is how I would like the 2880 to work all the time. It is much more useful for my live looping needs (although I understand why some may need the ext. start/stop commands.)

Why does this work? I think it’s because the 2880 believes the clock source is always in PLAY mode (even though nothing is playing on the TF) and as long as it never receives the appropriate “STOP” command, it will continue to work.

I still don’t understand exactly what type of message is being sent from the TF, or why. I hope to gather more information and contact both EHX and Eventide to see if they can help me figure this out.

Addt’l Notes: the TimeFactor does not need to be transmitting control messages, just clock. Sometimes I have to flip it between Digital Delay and Looper a couple of times before the 2880 will fire, but it works fairly consistently.