Home › Forums › Help/Technical Questions › Whats the deal with puting tubes in a guitar pedal?
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March 31, 2009 at 8:46 am #77984Mike VDMember
Seems like a gimmick. Is there really any difference from solid state pedals?
March 31, 2009 at 10:58 am #95063BlueSteelParticipanti think that it does make a difference in the sound, i just dont know what that difference is.
March 31, 2009 at 6:43 pm #95073Howard DavisMemberHere’s a link to my webpage “Tubes vs. Solid State.”
http://howard.davis2.home.att.net/Tubesvs.SolidState.htmIf you like tube equipment, get tube equipment – but first you should understand all the pros and cons.
March 31, 2009 at 6:46 pm #95074julianModeratorThe EH pedals run the tubes at full voltage, as opposed to many other tube pedals that run at partial voltage.
It is a bit of a mojo thing, sure the pedals don’t have to have tubes in their gain stage, but it’s just cool and over the top. If you like the pedal, than go for it.
I use tube amps. I’m sure if I found the right solid state amp I could probably get some really good sounds too, but I just like tubes. It just feels right. I like my equipment to be big and heavy.
March 31, 2009 at 7:11 pm #95077Howard DavisMemberQuote:The EH pedals run the tubes at full voltage, as opposed to many other tube pedals that run at partial voltage.It is a bit of a mojo thing, sure the pedals don’t have to have tubes in their gain stage, but it’s just cool and over the top. If you like the pedal, than go for it.
I use tube amps. I’m sure if I found the right solid state amp I could probably get some really good sounds too, but I just like tubes. It just feels right. I like my equipment to be big and heavy.
Hi Julian,
Low plate voltage operation of tubes causes them to distort at lower signal levels. The higher the plate voltage (within the limits of the tube), the more linear (distortion free) operating range is available. So for clean amplification you run the voltage high, and for overdrive distortion you run it low. The optimum voltage depends on the tube, the application, and the desired effect.
The people I know that like their equipment big and heavy usually have roadies to carry it around. The new XO and NANO pedals are popular because people like to be able to fit more on their pedalboards, and like the solid state pedals in the older large boxes, tube pedals take up alot of room and add weight.
March 31, 2009 at 7:37 pm #95078resophonicMemberI think tubes in pedals are used purely to get a tube distortion or tone, which is much different than a transistor or digital distortion/tone imo. Sure, you could maybe duplicate the sound digitally (not likely), but some people prefer the “analog” sound of things. I know I do. That’s why I also use a tube amp.
March 31, 2009 at 8:04 pm #95079Howard DavisMemberQuote:I think tubes in pedals are used purely to get a tube distortion, which is much different than a transistor or digital distortion imo. Sure, you could probably duplicate the sound digitally, but some people prefer the “analog” sound of things. I know I do. That’s why I also use a tube amp.How does one define “tube distortion?”
To the engineer such as myself, distortion consists of harmonics (and other audible byproducts such as sum & difference frequencies) of the tones that make up the musical signal – harmonics that are generated by nonlinearities in the amplifying devices the signal is processed by. The harmonics and their relative levels determine how musical or unmusical, desirable or undesirable, the resulting sound is. Some analog solid state devices such as FETs and CMOS chips, properly used, emulate “tube distortion” so well that it cannot be distinguished from the overdrive distortion and compression generated using actual tubes.Tube amps have other characteristics, such as power supply “sag,” that some people favor. I don’t care for this, as who wants their sound to muddy up and get softer when they want to rock out loud and hard? Solid state amps with properly designed power supplies do not “sag” – you play harder and they get louder, until driven into clipping.
March 31, 2009 at 9:18 pm #95085resophonicMemberQuote:Quote:I think tubes in pedals are used purely to get a tube distortion, which is much different than a transistor or digital distortion imo. Sure, you could probably duplicate the sound digitally, but some people prefer the “analog” sound of things. I know I do. That’s why I also use a tube amp.How does one define “tube distortion?”
To the engineer such as myself, distortion consists of harmonics (and other audible byproducts such as sum & difference frequencies) of the tones that make up the musical signal – harmonics that are generated by nonlinearities in the amplifying devices the signal is processed by. The harmonics and their relative levels determine how musical or unmusical, desirable or undesirable, the resulting sound is. Some analog solid state devices such as FETs and CMOS chips, properly used, emulate “tube distortion” so well that it cannot be distinguished from the overdrive distortion and compression generated using actual tubes.Tube amps have other characteristics, such as power supply “sag,” that some people favor. I don’t care for this, as who wants their sound to muddy up and get softer when they want to rock out loud and hard? Solid state amps with properly designed power supplies do not “sag” – you play harder and they get louder, until driven into clipping.
I am not an engineer, so it’s hard for me to describe tube distortion in technical terms, but from a sound perspective, tube distortion is an overdrive like sound caused by the breakup of the tubes in an amp, which is created when you turn the volume up and power said tubes. That’s the definition of it in my view. Yes, I know it’s emulatable by analog devices, but I guess it’s kind of like; would you rather have a tube based device for getting a tube based distortion, or a FET or CMOS based device for getting tube based distortion. In my view, you might as well just go for the real thing. I guess you could relate it (kind of) to biking. Would you rather have a stationary bicycle for bicycle based exercise, or a real bike for bicycle based exercise. Sure, you’d get the same result from both, but riding a real bicycle has some sort of “fun” factor to it (at least for me).
As for the “sag”, I understand that this is not favorable to some people, but I kind of enjoy the irregularities of tube amps. Sure, I could have a solid state that does the same thing all the time exactly when I want it to, but in my opinion, where’s the fun in that? That’s why some people prefer listening to vinyl or using film for photography. It’s the imperfections that make it great.
I guess it pretty much boils down to personal preference.
April 1, 2009 at 7:33 pm #95115Howard DavisMemberIf the distortion produced by a vacuum tube pedal and a solid state pedal both sound the same, why not choose the many advantages of solid state? I discuss these in depth on my website – http://howard.davis2.home.att.net/Tubesvs.SolidState.htm
I fail to see any “fun” in a tube going bad in an amp or pedal just as your band starts to play in a club. When reliability and predictability are essential, solid state is the way to go – these are among the many reasons why such consumer electronics devices as TVs are no longer made with tubes. And have you any idea how big and expensive a vacuum tube COMPUTER would be?
Poorly engineered CDs sound no better than some vinyl, and some well-recorded vinyl sounds better than some poor CDs, but the quality potential of CDs is far greater, especially when the masters, digital or analog, are of high quality.
I still use a film camera, but only because it has some capabilities I have not yet seen in digital cameras.
But as you said, “I guess it pretty much boils down to personal preference.”Howard
April 1, 2009 at 9:58 pm #95120julianModeratorI have a love/hate thing with my tube amp. I love that feeling that I’m playing with something volatile, a little dangerous, a little rebellious. Something that might just blow up while I’m playing it. It’s Rock and Roll. The utilitarian in me frets and worries over the reliability. Is it going to blow a tube this gig? I hope not. Then I worry about the power transformer going.
There’s other psychological aspects here as well though. If a beer tastes just as good out of the bottle as it does on draught, I’d probably still want it draught. I think I’d feel the same way about solid state/tube or cd/vinyl. The same argument comes up over XO/bent steel (though the utilitarian in me wins out over the reckless artist in me on this one, I don’t want a 10 foot long board!)
April 1, 2009 at 11:46 pm #95131Ned FlandersModeratorI’ve never found a solid state amp that sounds as nice as a tube amp, never, and I’ve tried a lot of amps.
Guitars just sound better thru the majority of tube amps IMO.
I like solid state pedals via a tube amp, tube pedals via a tube amp is overkill IMO, a tube pedal via a solid state amp is fine though.
About the best solid state amp I’ve ever heard is the sunn beta lead, still not my cup of tea but its pretty decent.April 2, 2009 at 12:58 am #95136Fender&EHX4everModeratorI never thought I’d love a solid state amp until I bought my Mike Matthew’s Dirt Road Special. That amp sounds amazing! I’ve thrown all prejudice about amps out the window.
That said, I’m a huge fan of many EHX tube pedals: The Wiggler, The Tube Zipper, The Black Finger, and the Hot Tubes. I really can’t say if the tubes are what makes them sound great, or not. What I can say is that I haven’t used any other pedal that can get the same sound as those.
April 2, 2009 at 2:27 am #95144julianModeratorThe EH tube pedals sound rad regardless.
April 2, 2009 at 4:03 am #95146Fbanks88MemberTubes in pedals just seem like a bad combination when i’m slamming down on them with my foot. I really like how the tube zipper sounds, but the fact that it has tubes in it just seems incidental and secondary to me when it has the sounds I’m looking for in it. As far as amps go I firmly beleive in tube power .
April 2, 2009 at 6:45 am #95149BrianzeroParticipantWell, i’m afraid I come out on the side of valves hands down. Most of what I feel has been said here already, but just to add my very first amp (I was 14) was a tube amp im not even sure what it was It could have been an ex military thing and some speakers in a small cab i made, wow what a sound that was (this was the 70’s !). Then in the early 80’s got my first proper amp a trany 100 watt but even with a TS9 it still sounded thin, reedy and just not very good. It wasn’t until the early nineties that i eventually got a JCM 900 and was reborn, THIS was the sound i has always wanted without a doubt. Hard to define but the words warm, rich, edgy, dirty spring to mind.
I don’t use any distortion/fuzz boxes on my board incidentally I get it all from my amp but i have two of the EHX tube pedals, the wiggler and the black finger and again the sound is the same as the above. An engineer once told me that valves have the actual element of fire in them, something very real and organic. But as has been said its all down to personal taste.
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