Home › Forums › Help/Technical Questions › Tube FX, distortion and gain structure Q
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November 9, 2010 at 1:00 pm #809782k2kParticipant
Just got me a Wiggler which I like but I’m surprised by the amount of distortion introduced and the lack of control I seem to have over it.
Some context: I play a nylon string acoustic with a Schertler Dyn-G p/u into a Schertler David amp which has an FX loop. Yeah, unorthodox I know… but whilst liking the warmth (and the soft WURL setting of the WIggler I don’t want it to distort anymore than it already does. The FX loop send level is tied to the channel volume on my amp so when I turn up, the distortion is more present too and I lose too much detail in my sound.
So here’s the question: would placing the Wiggler inline help any ? Lets say I got myself a EHX 12AY7 mic pre pedal (gotta have XLR inputs cos of the Dyn-G) and so had this chain –
Guitar/Dyn-G >>12AY7>>Wiggler>>Amp
would I be able to get more control over the tubes’ gain structure and dial down the Wigglers distortion ?
Or should I be thinking more about limiting the number of tubes in the chain rather than adding another 2 (ie getting a simple digital vibrato instead). Tube warmth and presence are fine but clearly a ittle goes a long way with this particular amp/guitar/sound combination.
Should add too that I live in deep boondock country so auditioning this stuff just ain’t possible.
Would greatly appreciate any input on this.
Cheers and greets from France
2k
November 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm #112481electro-melxModeratoryeah, take it out of the effects loop, it will be much happy with a guitar signal than a preamp signal… rather than putting a EHX mic pre in front how about just a DI type box that will convert the xlr to a standard 1/4 jack to go into the wiggler?
November 9, 2010 at 3:24 pm #112482electro-melxModeratorQuote:yeah, take it out of the effects loop, it will be much happy with a guitar signal than a preamp signal… rather than putting a EHX mic pre in front how about just a DI type box that will convert the xlr to a standard 1/4 jack to go into the wiggler?http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_di33.htm
I wonder if something like that might do the job?
November 9, 2010 at 3:58 pm #1124832k2kParticipantQuote:Quote:yeah, take it out of the effects loop, it will be much happy with a guitar signal than a preamp signal… rather than putting a EHX mic pre in front how about just a DI type box that will convert the xlr to a standard 1/4 jack to go into the wiggler?http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_di33.htm
I wonder if something like that might do the job?
Thanks for the replies guys.
The DI box there is unbalanced on the XLR input and I’d need XLR balanced for the Dyn-G, but beyond that, the O/P is only XLR which kinda defeats the purpose of the exercise methinks- getting the Wiggler inline between Pickup and amp.
I’m gonna hunt around for my impedance transformer and see what that does first and then try the DI o/p on the amp itself… time for some creative – and messy – cabling.
Cheers, 2k
November 9, 2010 at 4:34 pm #112484electro-melxModeratorQuote:Quote:Quote:yeah, take it out of the effects loop, it will be much happy with a guitar signal than a preamp signal… rather than putting a EHX mic pre in front how about just a DI type box that will convert the xlr to a standard 1/4 jack to go into the wiggler?http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_di33.htm
I wonder if something like that might do the job?
Thanks for the replies guys.
The DI box there is unbalanced on the XLR input and I’d need XLR balanced for the Dyn-G, but beyond that, the O/P is only XLR which kinda defeats the purpose of the exercise methinks- getting the Wiggler inline between Pickup and amp.
I’m gonna hunt around for my impedance transformer and see what that does first and then try the DI o/p on the amp itself… time for some creative – and messy – cabling.
Cheers, 2k
good luck, there’s usually a way around this type of thing, it’s just figuring it out in the first place isn’t it?
November 9, 2010 at 11:06 pm #112490TheGhostMachinaMemberI believe the Radial JDI will take a balanced XLR and output a 1/4″ hi-z. You may need an XLR turnaround tho’.
TGM
November 12, 2010 at 4:29 pm #1125372k2kParticipantQuote:I believe the Radial JDI will take a balanced XLR and output a 1/4″ hi-z. You may need an XLR turnaround tho’.TGM
Indeed, the Radial is 1/4″ input only, so I’d still need that impedance transformer and as the amp already has a DI o/p the Radial is kinda superfluous…
Now where’d I put that thing….
November 12, 2010 at 4:48 pm #112538TheGhostMachinaMemberAh yes, but you can run signal in either direction (an undocumented feature). I was suggesting going into the XLR “output” (frm gtr) and coming out of the 1/4 “input” (frm JDI) to your Wiggler.
Hope that helps;)
TGM
November 14, 2010 at 12:03 am #112567JamieGarnerMembermy wiggler made a distorted mess out of my signal. in the end I used a 12au7 tube in v1 (closest to input jack) and a 4024 in v2- the signal is perfect now, with the only distortion in the signal being what I dial in from other pedals or the amp.
the 12au7 has a gain rating of 17 compared to the 12ax7’s rating of 100, so it took some serious power reduction to clean up the signal. I started with a 5751 and worked my way down to the 12au7.
v2 was still distorting with a 12ax7, and the 4024 (equivalent to a 12at7, gain factor of 60) was the first tube not to distort.
is there a calibration or biasing control inside the case, and the occasional Wiggler is too hot, or do they all double as distortion boxes?
anyway, my Wiggler sounds fantastic now.
November 14, 2010 at 12:05 pm #112571BrianzeroParticipantQuote:my wiggler made a distorted mess out of my signal. in the end I used a 12au7 tube in v1 (closest to input jack) and a 4024 in v2- the signal is perfect now, with the only distortion in the signal being what I dial in from other pedals or the amp.the 12au7 has a gain rating of 17 compared to the 12ax7’s rating of 100, so it took some serious power reduction to clean up the signal. I started with a 5751 and worked my way down to the 12au7.
v2 was still distorting with a 12ax7, and the 4024 (equivalent to a 12at7, gain factor of 60) was the first tube not to distort.
is there a calibration or biasing control inside the case, and the occasional Wiggler is too hot, or do they all double as distortion boxes?
anyway, my Wiggler sounds fantastic now.
Hi Jamie
Just wondered if you have to up the volume on the wiggler to get it to unity volume? , as you have replaced with lower gain valves. I must admit my wiggler is slightly edgy so I am interested in what you have done there.
November 14, 2010 at 1:22 pm #112572JamieGarnerMemberregarding the volume setting for unity gain before and after the tube change, it is pretty dramatic;
with the stock 12ax7’s, I had the Wiggler’s volume knob around 9:00. After the tube swap, I have the volume around 2:00! With the intensity knob zeroed, the signal sounds identical to the non-wiggled signal, so that’s good- I do think it’s unusual it took such drastic changes to make the unit function like it should.
Brian, you say your unit is slightly too edgy? I’d say you wouldn’t need to go all the way down to a 12au7 if you can use words like ‘slightly’. the level of distortion I was getting from the Wiggler was like having a overdrive box active- not subtle at all!
I should add that now that my Wiggler is working, I love it. the vibrato circuit come closer to a Magnatone’s than any other fx unit I’ve found, and I also prefer the tremolo over the one in my Fender Deluxe.
November 14, 2010 at 6:21 pm #112577BrianzeroParticipantThanks Jamie
Yes, mine isn;t distorting as such but has a very warm valve sound quite reedy if that description fits. Yes I love the vibrato section on it, the looz and ham settings sound very uni vibe to me, If I come across any lower gain valves I will try them and see what the difference is but I am quite happy with its sound at present, Great pedal
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