Home › Forums › Ideas / Suggestions / Feedback › Transistor Version BIG MUFF PI
- This topic has 29 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 4 months ago by Ned Flanders.
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June 27, 2009 at 1:08 am #78483LesPaulCustom79Member
Please find some more NPN or PNP transistors and manufacture some of the really good BIG MUFFS that all guitar players love to play. Quit making those hideous Big Muffs with opamps that sound like all the other mediocre overdrives out there.
June 27, 2009 at 1:19 am #98478Ned FlandersModeratorOPAMP big muffs havent been made since 1979, all current big muffs are NPN and use BC550C or 2N5088 transistors.
BTW, they ALL sound cool as fuck!June 27, 2009 at 2:48 am #98481janusEffectModeratorI really don’t get where you’re coming from, LesPaulCustom79, but Ned’s right – the op amp versions were only made for a short period of time in the 1970s.
And for the record, I’ve NEVER used a Big Muff which sounded like overdrive to me. It’s distinctly fuzzy, through and through.
June 30, 2009 at 5:32 pm #98648LesPaulCustom79MemberFor the record I have a July 1979, according to the pot dates, NPN Transitor Big Muff Pi.
Compared to my vintage Big Muff, the new, current, Big Muffs sound like pure crap, with:
1. Absolutely No Bottom-end, 2. Sound raspy, thin, weak with no punch, 3. The high-end sounds shrill and piercing or however you want to describe it, 4. Overall they DO NOT have a pleasant smooth fuzz tone.DON’T FEED ME THAT CRAP THAT THE NEW BIG MUFFS ARE EVEN CLOSE TO THE 70’S VINTAGE BIG MUFFS!!!
I’ve A/B’d them to many times, especially the vintage “Ram’s Head” PNP transistor version and the “Pointed Knob” Red & Black graphic NPN transistor version against the new American & Russian garbage. The “Rams Head” versions have a distinct scooped mids tone which I don’t particularly care for but D. Gilmour seemed to use quite well.Don’t even get me started on the vintage Electric Mistress Deluxe with the T.I. SAD1024 Opamp, Gilmour used, against the new EH Electric Mistress Flangers.
If the new ones are the same then explain why Vintage 70’s Big Muffs and SAD1024 Opamps for Electric Mistress Deluxe Flangers sell for so much, when you can even find them? I’ll answer that, “IT’S BECAUSE THEY SOUND BETTER!!!” I have been trying to find a replacement SAD1024 Opamp for my Electric Mistress Deluxe for eight months now. Electro Harmonix refuses to stock vintage components and has abandoned all the EH vintage pedal users.
June 30, 2009 at 5:54 pm #98652LesPaulCustom79MemberThe new Big Muffs may have a modern type of NPN transitor but they are not the same NPN or PNP transitors used in the old Big Muffs, I have examined them ad nauseum. Some other things such as types of wiring, resistors, quality of solder connections, etc…have changed which definitely make a difference.
To make my point, why do you think most everyone that uses a reissue Ibanez TS-9 or Maxon TS-808, has it modded to late 70’s, early 80’s specs by either aNaLoGMaN or Keeley? I have a 1981 Black Label (Japan) TS-9 and when the switch finally wore out and the opamp went bad, I had aNaLoGMaN, 808 mod it, when he replaced the switch, the Green LED, the JRC4558 chip, and it sounds 200% better. Why? because of better components and the NOS opamp.
June 30, 2009 at 5:55 pm #98653nightravenMemberand it’s because they have ‘mojo’
June 30, 2009 at 5:55 pm #98654julianModeratorHave you tried the Little Big Muff or Big Muff with Tone Wicker? They sound much better than the NYC or Russian IMO.
If you don’t like either of those, you could always mod an NYC to Ram’s Head or Triangle specs pretty easily.
June 30, 2009 at 6:26 pm #98658LesPaulCustom79MemberQuote:Have you tried the Little Big Muff or Big Muff with Tone Wicker? They sound much better than the NYC or Russian IMO.If you don’t like either of those, you could always mod an NYC to Ram’s Head or Triangle specs pretty easily.
I like my 1979 BIG MUFF, it has more bottom-end, and the fuzz tone has more midrange grind or bite with articulation. You can actually hear the notes in bar chords. With the new Big Muffs the tone is a muffled roar, mushy slurry of notes, when you play chords plus the new ones are really, really, noisey. Vintage components is the only answer I can arrive at for the difference.
July 2, 2009 at 12:08 am #98739Ned FlandersModeratorQuote:The new Big Muffs may have a modern type of NPN transitor but they are not the same NPN or PNP transitors used in the old Big Muffs, I have examined them ad nauseum. Some other things such as types of wiring, resistors, quality of solder connections, etc…have changed which definitely make a difference.
.Quote:DON’T FEED ME THAT CRAP THAT THE NEW BIG MUFFS ARE EVEN CLOSE TO THE 70’S VINTAGE BIG MUFFS!!!
I’ve A/B’d them to many times, especially the vintage “Ram’s Head” PNP transistor version and the “Pointed Knob” Red & Black graphic NPN transistor version against the new American & Russian garbage. The “Rams Head” versions have a distinct scooped mids tone which I don’t particularly care for but D. Gilmour seemed to use quite well.Quote:I like my 1979 BIG MUFF, it has more bottom-end, and the fuzz tone has more midrange grind or bite with articulation. You can actually hear the notes in bar chords. With the new Big Muffs the tone is a muffled roar, mushy slurry of notes, when you play chords plus the new ones are really, really, noisey. Vintage components is the only answer I can arrive at for the difference.
Its a wonder you needed to post this thread, being such an expert and all!
Its also a wonder you didn’t realize the IC big muff hadn’t been made for 30 years.I cant begin to tell you how subjective your posts are, and they are nothing but subjective misinformation, I wont offer you a technical rebuttal about the circuitry of the big muff because it would make no difference, you seem to have your conclusions, all subjective, none objective.
July 2, 2009 at 8:49 am #98743electro-melxModeratorQuote:To make my point, why do you think most everyone that uses a reissue Ibanez TS-9 or Maxon TS-808, has it modded to late 70’s, early 80’s specs by either aNaLoGMaN or Keeley? I have a 1981 Black Label (Japan) TS-9 and when the switch finally wore out and the opamp went bad, I had aNaLoGMaN, 808 mod it, when he replaced the switch, the Green LED, the JRC4558 chip, and it sounds 200% better. Why? because of better components and the NOS opamp.I’m saying nothing…..
July 2, 2009 at 4:59 pm #98769LesPaulCustom79MemberTo all you “EH Homies”, sit there at your computer, with a straight face, without laughing out loud and state that the current mass-produced EH pedals sound better, are less noisey, and are made with better electronic components and better technical labor than the vintage, hand-wired EH pedals from the 70’s and early 80’s. If you swear that you can, EITHER, 1.You have never played/gigged with a vintage 70’s EH pedal OR 2.You are under 30 years old and wouldn’t know the difference if it jumped up and bit you in the ass, which makes you irrelevant to this thread.
July 2, 2009 at 5:03 pm #98770LesPaulCustom79MemberTo electro-melx “Dumbass”, I had the “bright” GREEN LED put into my 1981 TS-9 to make it different from everyone else’s, it came with a weak ass Red LED that you could barely see on stage.
July 2, 2009 at 5:19 pm #98772LesPaulCustom79MemberQuote:OPAMP big muffs havent been made since 1979, all current big muffs are NPN and use BC550C or 2N5088 transistors.
BTW, they ALL sound cool as fuck!Let’s do a quick vote, which Big Muff Pi had you rather have on your pedal board?
1. An early 70’s “triangle knobs” Big Muff / mid 70’s “Ram’s Head” Big Muff? OR
2. A current Big Muff?Note: David Gilmour used a triangle knobs Big Muff similar to the one on the far left, on most all of Pink Floyd’s early recordings and 70’s tours. I guess he had no idea what the hell he was doing.
July 2, 2009 at 6:16 pm #98777julianModeratorThis thread’s getting a little out of hand. Can we all calm down a bit?
I can’t say I’ve ever had the pleasure of playing a triangle or ram’s head muff. I don’t think I’d put one on my board though. I’d be too scared of damaging it.
But anyways, we all play different guitars, different amps, different styles of music, and we all look for something different in our Big Muffs. I’ve played six different EHX Big Muff variants, and each one sounded different to me. Some I’ve liked more than others. Some I’ve disliked to an extent. Some I see as apples and oranges, blondes and brunettes- neither better than the other one- just different. Also, amps, speakers, and guitars make huge impacts on what my Big Muffs sound like.
You’re lucky to have your vintage muffs and play ones that you prefer. But I wouldn’t regard people playing the new ones as just being ignorant, maybe they just have different taste than you do.
Not to mention if EH did reissue a triangle muff, there’s a good chance that it might not sound like your triangle muff, because AFAIK not all triangle muffs used the same transistors.
The nice thing about the Sovtek and NYC Big Muffs is that they are big and very easily moddable. So everyone can tweak those to their hearts desire to find the Big Muff sound for them.
Maybe they should just introduce a Big Muff with modder’s kit with sockets to change transistors, resistors, and wire up different switches.
July 2, 2009 at 10:49 pm #98791julianModeratorOn the contrary, I love Gilmour’s work with Pink Floyd up to and including DSOTM (they did good stuff after that, but I think they were past their peak.) I’m not really interested in sounding like him, but I do note his gear choices and the way he uses it.
And I like Van Halen (with Roth, I can’t stand Hagar.)
Also Ned doesn’t like green muffs and I do.
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