Home Forums Tips, Tricks, Clips, and Pics Seamless drones with 720 looper?

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  • #84698
    lordradish
    Member

    Hi, folks… my 720 looper arrived today, really digging the simplicity of it, but I’m wondering if anyone has a good technique for making a drone loop without the obvious click where the loop restarts. I know some loopers (like my Pigtronix) let me overdub over the start point of the loop, but I’m not quite sure how the 720 functions, in that regard.

    Any tips/techniques?

    Thanks in advance!

    #122344
    EHX STAFF
    Keymaster

    Sounds like you need the mode that goes rec/dub/play:
    to initialize
    REC/DUB/PLAY
    mode:
    1.
    Unplug the power jack.
    2.
    Simultaneously plug in the power jack while holding
    down the ½ SPEED
    button for three seconds.
    3.
    The digit display will show the sequence “o – o – 2
    – 2”
    4.
    The power on cycle will continue as usual.

    #122345
    lordradish
    Member

    I tried that, but I don’t think it worked in terms of getting the seamless drone, because I still hear the abrupt click where the original loop stops. Is it possible to overdub over the start point, or does the overdub only start and stop recording at the original loop points? Thanks

    #122346
    EHX STAFF
    Keymaster

    I see
    well what I do for loops that are drones is record silence first for say two bars and the go into dub mode then swell your guitar in with your guitar volume.
    I did that here at 3:60 in on this video:

    #122347
    lordradish
    Member

    Bill, I saw that excellent video, a few days ago, but I had a hard time understanding the “one second’ thing, as it wasn’t showing what your feet were doing. Still not sure I get what you mean… do you mean record a two second silent loop, then go into dub mode and swell in another two seconds? That doesn’t seem to be enough time. Or would I just leave it in dub mode until I got the swell I wanted?

    I guess what I’m still not understanding, is whether or not it records overdubs through(for lack of a better word) the starting point. Like, let’s say I recorded a three second silent loop, but I left the dub on for three cycles… would it record three new loops, or an overdub that is nine, not three, seconds long?

    I’m hoping it’s the latter, because often, I’m recording a pretty elaborate swell that is going through a filter or something else, that evolves over time, and would like to be able to record more than two seconds of it at a time and still have it be seamless.

    Thanks, again.
    Thanks.

    #122348
    EHX STAFF
    Keymaster

    Lord
    Well no mater what it will have to get to the end of a loop and start over.
    So if you record a blank loop of 10 seconds and fade in a swell with a filter going down at some point it will get back to the start of the filter sweep. Swelling in will not cause an abrupt start over.
    In the dub mode it records over the start point so I staggering phrase and it records over the original start. Does that make sense?

    #122351
    lordradish
    Member
    Quote:
    In the dub mode it records over the start point so I staggering phrase and it records over the original start.

    So, if I’m understanding you correctly, if I had a 5 second initial loop, but did a 10 second overdub, the overdub would be seamless because it’s recording over the start point of the original loop?

    #122355
    EHX STAFF
    Keymaster

    Lord just do it and you will hear what it sounds like. Its piling loops on loops.

    #122356
    lordradish
    Member

    Okay, I’ll give it a try, thanks.

    #122715
    markblack
    Member

    I bought a S/H freeze pedal to do just that – works really well if you draw a blank with your 720 looper.

    #124326

    when I come to know then I will let you know
    have a nice day

    have a close look at best drones under 300 http://dronesnerd.com/best-drones-under-300/

    #124328
    gvelasco
    Member
    Quote:
    Okay, I’ll give it a try, thanks.

    I think you might have a basic misunderstanding. The first recording, that is the first layer if you’re dubbing, sets the length of the loop. Overdubbing does not change the length of the original loop. So, if you start off with a 5 second loop and you dub 10 seconds on top of it, you still only end up with a 5 second loop. While the 720 is overdubbing, it just starts the first loop over again and only keeps the last 5 seconds of your overdub like this:

    Original:
    Layer 1 – 1 2 3 4 5

    When Dubbing:
    Layer 1 – 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
    Layer 2 – 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0

    Stop Dubbing:
    Layer 1 – 1 2 3 4 5
    Layer 2 – 6 7 8 9 0

    So, it just loops to the beginning and records through it. The total length of the original loop will never increase, and by the way, only the length of the original loop is subtracted from your total loop time of 720. Overdubbing does not subtract from your total storage.

    I don’t have the 720, so I might be wrong, but I’ve noticed with my 360 that it tries to do some sort of auto leveling of the volume when it begins recording, so that even if you start recording even after you’ve struck a cord, you will hear a pulse at the beginning of the loop. It’s a bit better if you use a compressor before the looper to get a very even volume throughout the recording, but it still doesn’t go away completely. So, here’s how I’ve gotten the best drone results with my 360.

    1. Use a compressor, or very compressed OD/Distortion/etc, before the looper.
    2. Use a very short initial loop – as short as possible.
    3. Record silence on the first loop.
    4. Fade overdubbed layers in.

    Here are the specific steps I use after everything is plugged in and ready to go. This is assuming a REC/PLAY/DUB workflow since I can’t switch to a REC/DUB/PLAY workflow on my 360. I want to build an Asus2 triad.

    — Record blank loop to equalize volume. —
    1. Turn down the volume on my guitar to record a silent initial loop.
    2. Tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to start recording a short silent initial loop – about 1 second or so. Tap it again to stop. The PLAY LED will be lit and it will be flashing on the 360 to indicate the start of the loop. The PLAY LED will be lit on the 720 and it will indicate that the loop is playing.

    — Add the first note of the drone. —
    3a. Play the root (A) on my guitar with volume turned down all the way.
    3b. Quickly tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to start first dub.
    3c. Quickly fade in the root note with volume control on my guitar. Let it ring past the beginning of the loop.
    3d. Tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to stop the first dub.

    — Add the second note of the drone. —
    4a. Turn down volume on my guitar.
    4b. Play the second note (B) on my guitar with volume turned down all the way.
    4c. Quickly tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to begin second dub.
    4d. Quickly fade in the second note with volume control on my guitar. Let it ring past the beginning of the loop.
    4e. Tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to stop the second dub.

    — Add the third note of the drone. —
    5a. Turn down volume on my guitar.
    5b. Play the third note (E) on my guitar with volume turned down all the way.
    5c. Quickly tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to begin third dub.
    5d. Quickly fade in the third note with volume control on my guitar. Let it ring past the beginning of the loop.
    5e. Tap the footswitch (LOOP on the 720) to stop the third dub.

    That’s a lot of steps, but I’ve discovered that if you build the drone up in faded-in layers, they kind of blend together and the restart of the loop is smoother and less noticeable. It becomes more like a shimmer.

    You might be able to do this more easily on the 720 with a REC/DUB/PLAY flow as Bill suggested, but I don’t have that to try, so you’ll need to experiment. Also, the Freeze is of course designed to do exactly this with a single press, but you lose the ability to layer your individual drone notes. For instance with the 360/720 you could do the root with an octave down to simulate a base, or use different effects for each layer, or if you use the same modulating effect like a flanger for each layer it would be at a different part of its cycle which can create a richer drone than just freezing a single chord.

    Finally, although you can use a looper as a drone machine with some effort since the Freeze is really just a very short looper without overdubing, the ultimate EHX drone machines are really the: Freeze, the Ravish Sitar, the Superego, and the Superego+. If drone is really what you want, you might consider getting something that’s designed specifically for it.

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