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  • August 13, 2009 at 9:59 am #78780
    OrcaStraightAhead
    Member

    hey there,

    i play in a band called Orca! Straight Ahead! check us out on myspace. enough of the plug though.

    basically the band consists on me making loops using guitar, talkbox and vocoder. then a drummer. we’re a two piece.

    one of the hardest thing to do is get my loops in sync with the drummer. its just really hard. we can do it but we’d love if there is an easier way.

    basically my question is, can i make my loops on the 2880 where a click track is available to both me and the drummer via headphones, but will not actually be on the recorded/overdubbed track?

    and if so, will the recorded loops and all overdubs be quantized to this click?

    will this be already inbuilt in to the machine or will this have to be done via syncing with a midi clock?

    is it even possible?

    that would make life a lot easier for us. essentially just some way we can both have a click on headphones with no click on the recorded output or overdubs and the loops be quantized to that click.

    even if only the drummer gets the click that’d be great.

    please help!

    i know looping is hard and i practice at it a lot but theres got to be an easier way. every gig is a nightmare because the potential for a monumental catastrophe on stage is epic.

    edit: oh i don’t actually own the 2880, just wondering if i should even consider it because this issue is the deal breaker. i own a much simpler product from one of your ‘rivals’ boss. the rc-20. cheap and simple, but limited.

    August 13, 2009 at 2:04 pm #100551
    B.Daws
    Participant

    I cannot answer many of your questions. I just ordered my 2880 and it’s not here yet but I have a Boss RC-2 and looping with it can be a nightmare. It’s fine by your self but the problem with it is when you have a drummer the tempo adjusts (like an auto-quantize) so if the drummer is even one or two hits off it can completely throw off the timing. On the 2880 I know you can have the quantize off and this could possibly help! If your RC-20 is like the RC-2 (they are pretty much the same) I can imagine it being the same kind of hassle. For instance, I record a simple 4 bar G-C-D-C progression and start jamming along but for some reason (and I don’t know how!?) it will change the tempo and what not if you have a drummer playing along with it. I emailed Boss about it and got nothing in response! Is this like the problems you have with your looper? I’ll let you know about the 2880 when I try it out.

    August 14, 2009 at 1:47 am #100570
    ghost
    Member

    The click track is audible thru the main outs…. Not much you can do about it. I’ve been thinking about modding mine to just go out the headphone out, but we will see…..

    August 15, 2009 at 1:46 am #100595
    OrcaStraightAhead
    Member

    dawson i find the same thing!

    i’m all good playing by myself.

    but with a drummer its hard to explain.

    sometimes its as if the parts i am recording are in perfect time as im playing them. then when they are played back they are out of time with the drums! and my drummer is very solid theres no way tempo will change that quickly. its some weird occurrence that happens from time to time. and its not just me my drummer is my witness.

    you’d think all these loopstation makers would be smart enough to realize that not all people are trying to do the one man band. some of us like live drums! and the solution is soooooooooooooo simple. a click out. with loops quantized to that click. its not that hard.

    im gonna see if i can get somebody to mod my rc-20 to have this feature. i’ll let you know how it goes. i would never pay for a 2880 or a rc-50 without this feature. i wonder if the boomerang has it.

    yeah i gotta give it to ehx though. i emailed boss and they didn’t even understand the question.

    very angry at the moment.

    the only way i can see this working is by using a midi controller or something. set the click on that. maybe with a laptop. click will go from the laptop to the drummer and me and then in to the loopstation to sync and quantize loops to that.

    but lets see laptop, veeeeeeeeery expensive looper (either rc-50 or 2880). its just not worth it.

    August 15, 2009 at 7:31 am #100602
    ghost
    Member

    My guess is… It’s not the looper for you guys… Playing with a live drummer and Loops can be TOUGH. It takes a lot of practice. That said, there are plenty of bands that pull it off. Don Caballero used pretty much Akai Headrush pedals exclusively – Nice Nice uses simple loopers with no drum sync, — it can be done with the boss loopers as well as the 2880. It just takes practice, and maybe a click track in ear for the drummer. They also make vibrating pulse metronomes for drummers that work well, in case the loops get lost in the mix…

    Any situation where man vs machine’s timing is involved there’s going to be a sway on the human part. It’s like trying to DJ disco records VS techno records. Disco, you can’t keep beat matched as it’s a live band/drummer most of the time. Techno is a drum machine, and will stay beat matched and mix just fine…

    August 15, 2009 at 8:35 am #100603
    OrcaStraightAhead
    Member
    Quote:
    My guess is… It’s not the looper for you guys… Playing with a live drummer and Loops can be TOUGH. It takes a lot of practice. That said, there are plenty of bands that pull it off. Don Caballero used pretty much Akai Headrush pedals exclusively – Nice Nice uses simple loopers with no drum sync, — it can be done with the boss loopers as well as the 2880. It just takes practice, and maybe a click track in ear for the drummer. They also make vibrating pulse metronomes for drummers that work well, in case the loops get lost in the mix…

    Any situation where man vs machine’s timing is involved there’s going to be a sway on the human part. It’s like trying to DJ disco records VS techno records. Disco, you can’t keep beat matched as it’s a live band/drummer most of the time. Techno is a drum machine, and will stay beat matched and mix just fine…

    we realise its a lot of hard work. and a lot of it is just no bullshit a lot of practice and playing together. thanks for suggesting some people who do do it i’m gonna look in to them.

    it’d just be a lot easier with the idea i suggested.

    a simple click for a drummer won’t work. it’ll be fine for the beginning of the song. but no matter how perfect the footstomping is it will always be a millisecond out or so. the click doesn’t adjust for that. by the end of the song the difference would have been compounded.

    like the rc-20xl for instance. it actually does have a click with adjustable volume with loops quantized to it. if only i could modify it to have an out for the drummer. it seems like such a simple feature. a no-brainer. and yet none of the loopers seem to have it.

    August 15, 2009 at 6:21 pm #100599
    julian
    Moderator

    You could get one of these or similar:

    http://www.clickkicker.com/

    It only has one out, but you could use a splitter to provide two outs if you’d like

    oooh, and if you want your drummer to have control over tempo:

    http://www.ploytec.com/34oneII/

    August 16, 2009 at 4:25 am #100621
    OrcaStraightAhead
    Member
    Quote:
    You could get one of these or similar:

    http://www.clickkicker.com/

    It only has one out, but you could use a splitter to provide two outs if you’d like

    oooh, and if you want your drummer to have control over tempo:

    http://www.ploytec.com/34oneII/

    thanks for those.

    they look great!

    August 17, 2009 at 1:49 pm #100656
    B.Daws
    Participant
    Quote:
    basically my question is, can i make my loops on the 2880 where a click track is available to both me and the drummer via headphones, but will not actually be on the recorded/overdubbed track?

    and if so, will the recorded loops and all overdubs be quantized to this click?

    will this be already inbuilt in to the machine or will this have to be done via syncing with a midi clock?

    is it even possible?

    even if only the drummer gets the click that’d be great.
    .

    I have played with my 2880 now and here is my synopsis.

    1. You can make the click available through headphones and I wonder if you could use one of the other outputs as a headphone jack as well and send it to both then just record in mono. Might be possible! Also the clicks are not recorded onto the tracks as far as I can tell!!!

    2. You can quantize them but you don’t have to.

    3. Once again, you can midi sync it but you don’t have to as the clix is built in.

    4. One person can definitely get the click and I am pretty sure you could do it with two!

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