Home › Forums › Help/Technical Questions › Pitch Fork: digital or analog?
Tagged: gvelasco
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August 2, 2017 at 12:32 am #84959cfibanez1Participant
Hi,
I got the Pitch Fork recently.
I am wondering about power along other pedals in the board.
Is this a digital or an analog pedal?
Thanks.
CAugust 2, 2017 at 3:16 am #101500EHX STAFFKeymasterIt is digital. An effect like this could NEVER be created in the analog domain.
Please use the power supply that was included with the Pitch Fork to prevent and noise coming in from other pedals.August 2, 2017 at 4:55 am #123039cfibanez1ParticipantQuote:It is digital. An effect like this could NEVER be created in the analog domain.
Please use the power supply that was included with the Pitch Fork to prevent and noise coming in from other pedals.Thanks, and please excuse my ignorance.
I appreciate your recommendation about the included power supply, but with over 12 pedals in my board, it is not practical to run each of them with its own power supply. You ought to know by now that people needs third party power supplies to power multiple pedals, including yours. It would be more helpful for your customers if you provided more real-life guidelines about power, instead of stubbornly recommend your dedicated power supply.
August 2, 2017 at 6:11 pm #123040EHX STAFFKeymasterUse an isolated power supply. That means one that has all it outputs isolated.
Cheap multi supplies tend to cause problems because their outputs are not isolated.
We are addressing these cheap supply issues.
You can also use a Diago Isolator Adaptor for our pedals and other companies pedals that have this issue with non isolated power supplies.September 15, 2017 at 9:02 pm #123141gvelascoParticipantQuote:…I got the Pitch Fork recently.Congratulations.
Quote:I am wondering about power along other pedals in the board.There are cheap solutions and good solutions. The cheap solutions SOMETIMES work. The expensive solutions MIGHT also give you problems if you don’t set them up right, but they are more likely to work well.
With ALL pedals, the best solution is for each pedal to be powered by its own recommended, dedicated, tested, supported power supply. This might sound like a scam for manufacturers to sell power supplies, but the fact is that they can only GUARANTEE that their pedals will work properly and not be damaged by power supplies that they have tested. It’s unreasonable to expect manufacturers to test their pedals with every possible cheap power supply that someone might buy. There are minor differences in power supplies that might make it seem like it is working, but it might actually be sub-optimal. For instance, the plug might have an outer diameter that is just a bit too small, or an inner diameter that is just a bit too big. These can cause intermittent contact problems or premature wear of the jack. Third party power supplies might be the correct voltage, but might not be supplying the correct current, or they might not be shielded and grounded properly to prevent external interference. You don’t care about interference if you’re charging an electric razor, but you do care if you’re amplifying the signal.
So, the VERY BEST solution even though no one likes it, is to have every pedal on a separate, dedicated, approved, isolated, shielded power supply.
Everyone, even Electro-Harmonix, knows that this is not a practical solution for anyone who has more than three or four pedals on their board. So what do we do?
One option is to use batteries as much as possible!!! Only use a power supply for effects that don’t take batteries and/or their sound is not affected by the power source. Some analogue effects, especially overdrives and some filter effects sound better with Carbon Zinc batteries because of their effect on the load. Some big name players swear by batteries for some of their effects, and it’s not because they can’t afford the high end power supplies. If you have enough money, and most people don’t, you can put a fresh set of batteries in all of your effects once per month, once per week, or even once per gig(!), depending on your budget and how often you play.
Some effects’ tones, usually digital, memory, and/or modulation, aren’t affected by using a battery, however using a battery even with those takes them out of the power circuit and reduces sources of interference. Every effect you take out of the power chain is one less possible source of interference.
So, let’s say you decide to go with a mix of batteries and power supplies. I think that’s what many pros end up with. What’s the best way to handle the power supplies. Again, it’s best to go with dedicated power supplies. If you have most or many of your pedals on batteries and only a few that have to use power supplies then it makes that solution easier.
Let’s say you REALLY DON’T LIKE having to deal with all of those power supplies, then you want to use an ISOLATED power supply rather than a chained power supply. An isolated power supply provides separate, isolated outputs to the pedals. Each pedal gets its own power line which is isolated from all of the other lines. This also allows for different power draws on each line. Even with this solution, you might still get “cross talk” between power lines that are running parallel to each other and to the signal cables.
Next cheapest? Daisy chained power lines. It is possible to daisy chain all of your power supplies if they are all the same voltage. This solution is the easiest one to manage. It’s the cheapest. It often works, especially if you’re not trying to do too many pedals AND they all play nice. However, it is fraught with problems. Of course, all pedals in the chain will be putting noise into the signal. Some pedals are worse than others at PUTTING noise onto the line, and some are worse than others at PICKING UP noise from their power line.
Another problem with daisy chained power supplies is that you have to ADD UP ALL of the amperage for all of the pedals on that line. If the total mA draw of all of the pedals exceeds the mA of the supply, then unpredictable things can happen. Sometimes, the power draw changes depending on the pedals settings, so it might work in one configuration – like “low gain”, but not in another – like “high gain”. Sometimes one pedal might be affected. Sometimes the entire power supply will just cut out. Just imagine that all the lights come on and everything seems cool until you stack your distortions. You step on that second one and the whole power supply switches off because that one effect on that one setting took it over the edge. Not cool.[/quote]
-=Gabriel=-September 15, 2017 at 9:36 pm #123142gvelascoParticipantQuote:Hi,
Is this a digital or an analog pedal?It is possible to make a pure analogue clean(ish) octave down circuit like the Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer. These can only be monophonic and even the very best ones ever made can be “glitchy”, meaning that they don’t track perfectly and will jump between octaves. They tend to have a sweet spot and tend to work better with low notes. Being monophonic and working better with low notes makes these popular with bass players.
It is possible to make a DIRTY NOT CLEAN, octave up circuit like the Electro-Harmonix Octavix. I don’t think the Octavix is pure analogue, but it is possible to make the circuit purely analogue. These can also only be monophonic (mostly) and they also tend to have a sweet spot which is about the top third of an electric guitar fretboard. You can play double note parts, but you quickly get harmonic interference that sounds like ring modulation.
Some companies combine the clean octave down with the dirty octave up. The Electro-Harmonix Micro Synthesizer does this. You can blend in an analogue octave down, an analogue octave up, the original signal, and a “square wave” which is really just a massively clipped signal – basically distortion. You can then apply filters to them. It’s all analogue and gives you both an octave up and an octave down.
To get anything other than an octave with analogue circuitry, you need to use a phase-locked loop (PLL). This DOES NOT give you the original sound raised or lowered by some arbitrary interval. It allows you to control the pitch of a generated tone, like an analogue synthesizer, with the pitch of an input, like a guitar. So you can have a synthesizer that plays along with you at some arbitrary interval that you can set. It doesn’t sound like a guitar harmonizing with you. It sounds like a synthesizer harmonizing with you. Earthquaker Devices Data Corrupter is all analogue PLL INTERVAL up and/or down device that does this.
If you want GLITCHLESS and CLEAN octave up and/or down, the only way to go is DIGITAL. The Electro-Harmonix Micro POG is a clean octave up/down machine. It is digital. The digital circuit allows algorithms that are smart enough to handle chords and make them sound good by preventing harmonic interference. The Micro POG only gives you octaves, but they are clean, they track perfectly, and they are POLYPHONIC.
The Pitchfork is kind of like the Micro POG, but for any arbitrary pitch. It’s also clean, glitchless, and polyphonic. It’s also DIGITAL. Why would they make both a Micro POG AND a Pitchfork? The algorithms are slightly different. The sounds you get when you mix the intervals together is slightly different. Some people prefer the tracking and tone of the POG and some people prefer the Pitchfork. Most of the reviews I’ve seen comparing the blended octave up AND down polyphonic response or just octave up of the POG and the Pitchfork give the POG a slight edge in terms of tone. People who have both seem to think that there’s room for both on their pedal board. People who choose between the two tend to pick the Pitchfork because it’s much more flexible.
Both of these (and their relatives), by necessity, are DIGITAL circuits.
January 4, 2019 at 5:03 pm #124687ThomMemberI use my Pitch Fork with a Strymon Ojai power supply and it has no noise and works great. It’s not a cheap power supply but you get what you pay for. Completely isolated outputs.
May 10, 2023 at 10:24 pm #198793fghmnbvcParticipant<It is possible to make a pure analogue clean(ish) octave down circuit like the Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer. These can only be monophonic and even the very best ones ever made can be “glitchy”, meaning that they don’t track perfectly and will jump between octaves. They tend to have a sweet spot and tend to work better with low notes. Being monophonic and working better with low notes makes these popular with bass players.>
not true, you can make a clean polyphonic analogue octave up or down circuit.
</If you want GLITCHLESS and CLEAN octave up and/or down, the only way to go is DIGITAL. The Electro-Harmonix Micro POG is a clean octave up/down machine. It is digital. The digital circuit allows algorithms that are smart enough to handle chords and make them sound good by preventing harmonic interference. The Micro POG only gives you octaves, but they are clean, they track perfectly, and they are POLYPHONIC.>
digital obviously makes things easier. but you can make a clean, polyphonic, octave up, down, or somewhere in-between pedal with analogue circuitry, it would just be extremely difficult to do, would recrquire a HUGE amount of electronics, and be expensive. But it is possible, especially with modern advances in analogue circuitry. (there is a push recently to make more advanced analogue circuitry that can do more things, because analogue circuitry can’t get hacked the way digital can.)
May 14, 2023 at 9:16 am #198800EHX STAFFKeymasterPlease show us an example of a clean analog polyphonic pitch shifter!
I have NEVER seen that done. -
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