Home › Forums › Vintage EHX › History of Small Clones – identifying / categorizing, sonic differences, etc

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  • May 25, 2012 at 7:11 pm #117615
    The EH Man
    Moderator

    The Bad Stone and Small Clone are 2 different effect types. Perhaps you meant Clone Theory?

    May 25, 2012 at 7:14 pm #117616
    0xo0
    Participant

    It could have had something to do with one of their other pedals. Pedal Area has the Bad Stone in production from 1975 to 1981. I think I remember reading a similar theory about the mini/full chorus thing but with the Clone Theory.

    May 25, 2012 at 7:23 pm #117619
    Effectsiation
    Member
    Quote:
    The Bad Stone and Small Clone are 2 different effect types. Perhaps you meant Clone Theory?

    Hi Ron, yes that’s what I meant. Sorry I have a Bad Stone build on my bench and it’s been consuming my thoughts.

    May 25, 2012 at 10:12 pm #117624
    bzuuuuu
    Participant
    Quote:
    Quote:
    All MINI-CHORUS Small Clones out there are vintage units and apparently, the earliest ones ever produced. The MINI and FULL versions also share the same circuit and components.

    That’s not true. My Mini-Chorus version has a pot date in late 1983, probably among the very last pedals made in the original era. It has the Reticon SAD1024 in it too. I’m pretty sure I remember Ron saying that he has one just like it too. I THINK I’ve actually seen vintage units with the “Full-Chorus” too, complete with the dash. I’m not 100% sure about that though.

    Well, I think Ron already sorted that out for you. =)

    I’m pretty sure you’ve never seen a vintage Small Clone “Full-Chorus” with the dash, because they do not exist. It’s the easiest way to tell a vintage unit from a RI one, actually.

    The “Mini-Chorus” however, had the dash separating the two words.

    May 25, 2012 at 10:47 pm #117625
    0xo0
    Participant
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    All MINI-CHORUS Small Clones out there are vintage units and apparently, the earliest ones ever produced. The MINI and FULL versions also share the same circuit and components.

    That’s not true. My Mini-Chorus version has a pot date in late 1983, probably among the very last pedals made in the original era. It has the Reticon SAD1024 in it too. I’m pretty sure I remember Ron saying that he has one just like it too. I THINK I’ve actually seen vintage units with the “Full-Chorus” too, complete with the dash. I’m not 100% sure about that though.

    Well, I think Ron already sorted that out for you. =)

    I’m pretty sure you’ve never seen a vintage Small Clone “Full-Chorus” with the dash, because they do not exist. It’s the easiest way to tell a vintage unit from a RI one, actually.

    The “Mini-Chorus” however, had the dash separating the two words.

    Could have been original guts in a reissue enclosure, if nothing else. But I am pretty sure I’ve seen it.

    May 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm #117626
    bzuuuuu
    Participant
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    All MINI-CHORUS Small Clones out there are vintage units and apparently, the earliest ones ever produced. The MINI and FULL versions also share the same circuit and components.

    That’s not true. My Mini-Chorus version has a pot date in late 1983, probably among the very last pedals made in the original era. It has the Reticon SAD1024 in it too. I’m pretty sure I remember Ron saying that he has one just like it too. I THINK I’ve actually seen vintage units with the “Full-Chorus” too, complete with the dash. I’m not 100% sure about that though.

    Well, I think Ron already sorted that out for you. =)

    I’m pretty sure you’ve never seen a vintage Small Clone “Full-Chorus” with the dash, because they do not exist. It’s the easiest way to tell a vintage unit from a RI one, actually.

    The “Mini-Chorus” however, had the dash separating the two words.

    Could have been original guts in a reissue enclosure, if nothing else. But I am pretty sure I’ve seen it.

    That was probably the case.

    I’ve seen and studied literally dozens of vintage Small Clone FC units in the last 20 or so years and none of them had the dash.

    June 6, 2012 at 11:52 pm #117700
    bzuuuuu
    Participant
    Quote:
    As I understand it, the Small Clones from the early `80’s have a clear status lamp and later ones have a red status lamp.

    I hear people mentioning a “re-issue” Small Clone and it appears to look exactly like the older ones. Does “re-issue” refer to all the ones with the red status lamp? Or…?

    Some early units have a smaller (3mm) red status lamp. I have one of those (1980/1981).

    The most obvious way to tell an original from a reissue unit (without opening it) is by the dash between the words “FULL” and “CHORUS” on the reissues. Reissues also don’t have a 3mm status lamp and the screening is of lower quality / less durable.

    All “MINI-CHORUS” units are vintage ones, as those have never been reissued.

    April 28, 2013 at 8:15 pm #118975
    monstrinho
    Member

    //

    April 29, 2013 at 12:30 am #118976
    bzuuuuu
    Participant
    Quote:
    I was just reading through this thread and wanted to post a follow up. At
    the moment there is a Small Clone on Ebay with original box and all of the
    papers etc. Time capsule condition. It has a 3mm clear LED and also has a
    dash in the “FULL-CHORUS,” so stating that the originals never had this
    appears to be false. Here’s your proof:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-Electro-Harmonix-Small-Clone-w-box-/310658871618?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4854b63142

    Your link points to a MINI-CHORUS unit, not a FULL CHORUS one. And as I (literally) stated in my previous post all MINI-CHORUS units are originals (since these have never been reissued) and all have the dash.

    There’s no such thing as an original FULL CHORUS unit with the dash and this is the most obvious way to tell an original from a reissue unit.

    February 2, 2014 at 8:02 pm #119655
    Tarmogoyf
    Member
    Quote:
    From 1979 to early 1981, EH used either the MN3007 delay chip or the RETICON SAD1024 one (the rarest). Although subtle, there’s definitely sonic differences between both. However, the most sought after unit is the 1024 one, mostly because this was the version used by Nirvana’s Kurt Cobain on the “Nevermind” recording and tour, as well as during the “MTV Unplugged” sessions.

    I’d say the SAD1024 delay chip is more “watery” sounding and adds a slight “boost” to the signal, while the MN3007 allows higher levels and less noise without signal clipping. No version is “better” than the other and it all comes down to personal preference, IMO.

    Bullshit.

    Unless you are Earnie Bailey, Nirvana’s guitar tech, which you are not, then you have absolutely no idea what chip was in Kurt’s Small Clone. All you are doing is making an assumption, based on your own personal opinion, and perpetuating bad information on the internet.

    It’s simple: pix or it didn’t happen.

    February 2, 2014 at 11:15 pm #119656
    bzuuuuu
    Participant
    Quote:
    Quote:
    From 1979 to early 1981, EH used either the MN3007 delay chip or the RETICON SAD1024 one (the rarest). Although subtle, there’s definitely sonic differences between both. However, the most sought after unit is the 1024 one, mostly because this was the version used by Nirvana’s Kurt Cobain on the “Nevermind” recording and tour, as well as during the “MTV Unplugged” sessions.

    I’d say the SAD1024 delay chip is more “watery” sounding and adds a slight “boost” to the signal, while the MN3007 allows higher levels and less noise without signal clipping. No version is “better” than the other and it all comes down to personal preference, IMO.

    Bullshit.

    Unless you are Earnie Bailey, Nirvana’s guitar tech, which you are not, then you have absolutely no idea what chip was in Kurt’s Small Clone. All you are doing is making an assumption, based on your own personal opinion, and perpetuating bad information on the internet.

    It’s simple: pix or it didn’t happen.

    For starters, your pathetic reply only demonstrates your poor knowledge about the subject. Secondly, you seem to ignore there’s actually a book about Nirvana published by a guitar magazine a few years ago where Earnie Bailey actually states he had a bit of a hard time “finding spare SAD1024 delay chips for Cobain’s chorus units”.

    That’s good enough for me! …And you should read more.

    February 3, 2014 at 12:38 am #119657
    Tarmogoyf
    Member
    Quote:
    I’m a douche and that’s good enough for me!

    ISBN number? And then specific page number? Any other sources stating this?

    If I had a nickel for every time a magazine, book, or some fool on the internet got information about an artists gear wrong. . . .

    Also, this would have been in early 90s so SAD1024 chips would have not been hard to find at all. Even now you can still commonly come across them on eBay for around $60 or so.

    And why would he specifically mention that component and not any of the million others that would fail or break on an old Small Clone? And why would that one chip fail repeatedly causing him to keep needing them?

    Sorry. Still sounds like bullshit.

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