Home › Forums › The Lounge › Censorship- SPAM debate
- This topic has 26 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 1 month ago by electro-melx.
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March 9, 2009 at 7:41 am #77865KrinorMember
Okay; so you censor posts ?!
Well that’s it. I’m out of here. Bye!
Why don’t you delete my account too while your at it ?
March 9, 2009 at 8:37 am #94300electro-melxModeratorIf you are talking about the For Sale/Trade thread, then I’d hardly call that censorship!!
Maybe if you had posted your thoughts here
https://www.ehx.com/forums/viewthread/392/
then you might have been able to persude Scott into looking into this again, anyway there’s your reason….nothing to do with censorship.
…although while we are on the subject ….. yes, if I feel that something someone has posted could be offensive to other people I may remove/edit it. If you are looking for an ‘anything goes’ forum this isn’t it.
March 9, 2009 at 3:19 pm #94302I’m not 100% sure what happened in this case, but we only moderate abusive or overly commercial posts. I also leave it to the discretion of our amazingly helpful volunteer admins to decide when a post crosses the line and becomes abusive or commercial enough to warrant moderation (that’s inherently a personal judgment call).
The admins also often discuss particular cases “behind the scenes” before taking action. I do know that they think commercial posts have a disproportionate tendency toward creating trouble, and that’s why the current policy is to keep most commerce out. fwiw, this is also a policy that can be changed, but that is what it happens to be now.
fwiw, this was all noted when you signed up — but I can totally understand if you didn’t pay careful attention to the TOS, or if you simply forgot — but the admins are really doing a amazing job at keeping the conversations here friendly (we all know what happens on other forums!) — and, again, this policy is open to change.
I hope that helps! -Scott
March 9, 2009 at 4:03 pm #94305McHavenModeratorIts not censorship. Its moderation. I was taking actions to keep your post within the rules of the forum. I think it was perfectly reasonable for me to do what I did, and I didn’t even delete your post. All I did was close it and take out the commercial spam in it. Commercial spam is not currently allowed on these forums, and if you can’t play by the rules, then go on ahead and leave.
March 9, 2009 at 4:20 pm #94306JRigglesMemberI’m afraid I quite have to agree with McHaven…though please bear in mind that this was not done, I’m sure, in order to offend. As it stands, you are more than welcome to continue participating in this forum, just not in a commercial capacity (this can be said for everyone here, until such a time that the policy is changed). If you wish to leave then that is entirely your decision.
March 9, 2009 at 4:40 pm #94307fwiw, I should be clear about this too: I hope you stay.
But please also understand that we actually spent a lot of time talking about whether this should be a “commerce free zone” — and the decision was (again, subject to change) that we should.
So, commercial posts should be saved for other forums (unless we later enable them here) and I hope you continue to participate here.
March 9, 2009 at 5:59 pm #94308KrinorMemberHi all.
I’m sorry, I got a bit hot headed… It happens sometimes.
Here’s the thing:
I happen to own a fabulous XO Deluxe Memory Man. But I also just aquired an AMAZING Older DMM moded by Howard Davis. So I don’t need the little XO anymore, and since this version is not available in the USA I thought out of devotion to the spirit of EHX and also out of kindness, that I’d offer one happy american the chance to buy this pedal from me. I don’t NEED to sell it, but I don’t need to own it either so there you are. If the above is considered commercial spam, then this forum is not for me.
FWIW the pedal is no longer for sale as I have now sold it locally.
Since most other forums I use have “for sale/trade” sections I thought it would be nice to have one here as well, and when I checked the Lounge, I noticed a few posts down that someone else was selling something, and so I thought it was okay, but I also thought I’d be a good forum member and create a thread that others could use later as well.
Like probably 99% of the rest of you I have not read the terms of use for this or any other forums I have ever used. I simply click “I agree”. I admit it. I am a sinner.
So, for what it is worth, I appologize for breaking the forum rules but feel strongly that this forum should AT LEAST have a “Vintage/Used ELECTRO HARMONIX gear for sale” section.
I agree that we should all of course buy as many NEW EHX pedals as possible to keep this fabulous company in business, but this forum is also a place where owners and users of vintage EHX gear come to talk and I think we should be allowed to offer EHX pedals for sale as long as it is just private sales between forum members and not commercial sales in larger numbers. Take a look at the For Sale section over at Aron’s stompbox forum. It works like a dream.
Does anyone agree with me ?
March 9, 2009 at 8:47 pm #94310julianModeratorThere are people who agree with you, including some moderators. This issue isn’t so much over EH sales being hurt. Resale is an accepted part of the business, and if the resale market is healthy for a certain product, than the retail market for a product is probably pretty healthy too.
Personally, I’d like to have a SPAM thread, but I see a few reasons why not to allow it:
1. We don’t want people to get scammed here
2. We don’t want people to argue over deals here
3. While resale doesn’t necessarily hurt EH, I think if we allowed resale on the forums some EH retailers may have a gripe with it.
4. There are plenty of other places for that on the internet to buy and sell stuff
5. The forums is young- this one ties into the first two. Generally on other forums you’re selling to people who have been posting for years and you can trust.At the same time there are reasons for it:
1. It helps foster a community
2. It attracts more people to the forums
3. It is a good market for EH products. If someone wants to sell their EH pedal, it would sell here. Which is nice.March 9, 2009 at 9:53 pm #94311janusEffectModeratorJulian summarized our internal mod-versus-mod spam debates pretty well.
I’d also like to add that options do exist for minimizing the concerns about scamming fellow users and rubbing retailers the wrong way. They would require altering the forums and shifting moderator resources.
For the record, not all spam is prohibited. It just needs to be in lunch meat form.
March 9, 2009 at 10:03 pm #94313electro-melxModeratorI totally agree with everything Julian has just said.
Personally I would like to see a whole classifieds section on the forum, with ‘wanted’ ‘for sale’ ‘for trade’ ‘musicians wanted’ ‘Venues looking for bands’ ‘Bands looking for gigs’ etc etc and I think it would be a fantastic addition……but as Julian has outlined there are possible problems with doing this. (and many others that he hasn’t mentioned which the volunteer admin have discussed with EHX staff)
There’s always that grey area of where to draw the line and the admin decided at this time it’s easier to draw that line where it is. I think what you need to remember is this forum is linked to Electro Harmonix as a company by it’s name and nature….it’s not like other forums which are more of a seperate entity in their own right. What happens here reflects on the company good and bad….on other forums what happens only refects on the forum itself.
March 9, 2009 at 10:03 pm #94314KrinorMemberVery good points Electro-Melx…
Scam, spam whatever… I’m just a musician and I can’t say I really care. It’s just the internet for gods sake! It’s just a digital communication surrogate. Get back to your guitars!
March 9, 2009 at 10:04 pm #94315electro-melxModeratora little example
to use part of your post:
“I think we should be allowed to offer EHX pedals for sale as long as it is just private sales between forum members and not commercial sales in larger numbers.”
Firstly I don’t know who you are, you could be the owner of a guitar shop, trying to shift used gear that you have, where better to sell ehx stuff than to the fans on the forum….now I know that’s unlikely, but you could be ok?
Now we’ll call you ‘shop A’
‘Shop B’ gets wind of what you are doing, he has several EHX pedals in his shop so he puts them on here too as ‘good as new only used once’ even though they are brand new items, he offers them for $15 less than most shops.
‘Shop C’ gets wind of this, he is unhappy and feels that ‘Shop B’ is using the forum to undercut him in price, so contacts EHX to complain…..
March 9, 2009 at 10:13 pm #94316KrinorMemberQuote:a little exampleto use part of your post:
“I think we should be allowed to offer EHX pedals for sale as long as it is just private sales between forum members and not commercial sales in larger numbers.”
Firstly I don’t know who you are, you could be the owner of a guitar shop, trying to shift used gear that you have, where better to sell ehx stuff than to the fans on the forum….now I know that’s unlikely, but you could be ok?
Now we’ll call you ‘shop A’
‘Shop B’ gets wind of what you are doing, he has several EHX pedals in his shop so he puts them on here too as ‘good as new only used once’ even though they are brand new items, he offers them for $15 less than most shops.
‘Shop C’ gets wind of this, he is unhappy and feels that ‘Shop B’ is using the forum to undercut him in price, so contacts EHX to complain…..
Oh my…So much for being devoted.
March 9, 2009 at 10:55 pm #94320danieldangerParticipantQuote:Personally, I’d like to have a SPAM thread, but I see a few reasons why not to allow it:1. We don’t want people to get scammed here
2. We don’t want people to argue over deals here
3. While resale doesn’t necessarily hurt EH, I think if we allowed resale on the forums some EH retailers may have a gripe with it.
4. There are plenty of other places for that on the internet to buy and sell stuff
5. The forums is young- this one ties into the first two. Generally on other forums you’re selling to people who have been posting for years and you can trust.as much as i would love another place for me to hunt down old rare EH pedals, i completely agree with all the above points. especially #3, it seems like a conflict of interest for EHX, because this is the official site forums. anyways, for-sale gear forums result in three unavoidable things: people getting ripped off, dealers posting constantly, and people over the top freaking out publicly over said purchases going wrong. there is absolutely no way to avoid it.
March 9, 2009 at 11:26 pm #94323Aren’t there enough good places to, uh, ahem, peddle pedals?
Personally, I think it’s nice for us to be able to discuss gear without the grief that can accompany financial transactions. That said, these forums are here for you, and the policies are simply meant to reflect your preferences (and also to help maintain a friendly space). So I might lean toward keeping it commerce-free, but that remains open to change.
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