Home › Forums › Help/Technical Questions › Billy Corgan’s Muff pic! What version is it?!

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  • November 2, 2009 at 1:40 am #103117
    firesgt911
    Member

    I can nail Siamese Dream perfectly with my version 5 Big Muff. I think the icing on the cake with his tone, is using the right guitar. I have a Strat with Lace Sensor R-S-B. It is spot on same sound as the recordings through my Peavey Valveking(except clean tones).

    November 2, 2009 at 6:05 am #103123
    devnulljp
    Participant
    Quote:
    Also another thing people delude themself with is that the so called FS36999 is FAR superior than the 2N5088, fact is it IS a 2N5088.

    I thought they were rebranded Fairchild 2N5133s?

    And yes the 1uF triangle is bassier than the 0.1uF, closer to a Jumbo Tonebender in sound if you ask me (once I fixed the one dried up cap). With humbuckers though, I’m liking one of my 0.1uF triangles better than the others. I really liked the one v3 I had with BC239Cs too…

    November 2, 2009 at 6:21 am #103126
    firesgt911
    Member

    “There’s so much variation in big muffs and so much misinformation on the www about big muffs its a wonder ANYONE can make an informed decision about any muff purchase!

    I know Ron and I at least try to correct this misinformation…but there’s not much we can do about the consistancy of vintage big muffs!”

    That’s why I plan to own them ALL!!! HAHAHA(evil laugh)!!!

    In all seriousness…you guys have been great sources of information for me. Thank you both!

    November 2, 2009 at 6:28 am #103128
    asalinasc
    Participant

    Almost All triangles and sovteks. have a bassy response.
    For that i’m comparing with a ram’s head and a 3rd issue.with 100nf caps on the diodes

    here is a video where this bass response difference is shown between

    an original Triangle Muff and a Skreedy Mayo
    The mayo has less gain (2N5133 NOS) and 100nf caps

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDmQDGEWtuM

    I once moded my usa version with the EH3003 schem using original caps (having an original to use as a guide)

    and the sound was similar but lacked grit and growl..(crunch) it depends of ur gear defo.

    and about the FS thing… 2N5088 and 2N5087 are the best transistors u can find or put on a bigmuff…

    November 2, 2009 at 7:15 am #103129
    devnulljp
    Participant
    Quote:
    2N5088 and 2N5087 are the best transistors u can find or put on a bigmuff…

    2N5087s are PNP, as are FS37000s (are they rebranded 2N5087s…?) and those muffs are pretty rare.
    Anyone here got one? Seen one? (that’s original)…

    November 2, 2009 at 7:27 am #103130
    asalinasc
    Participant

    i think they’re also rebranded 2N5087…

    Kitrae Site has tons of info on those.

    November 2, 2009 at 9:55 am #103134
    Ned Flanders
    Moderator

    Triangles and sovteks dont have bass response,they have boom response!
    In the Sovteks its the 2x 47nF caps, in the triangles its the 2x 50nF caps…swap them 2 caps to 1uF (or even 220nF is a huge improvement) and tell me it has bass response! It will be thinner than a fuzz face and thats why you then need to up the other 100nF caps to 1uF for true bass response. I’ve done it to many a big muff so i talk from experience.

    So again, its not bass, its BOOM, two totally different things. Bassy you can do chords really well, if its Boomy they sound like shit!

    And in my experience Big Muffs sound best with either 2N5088,2N5089 or BC550C trannies. All sound very very similar.

    November 18, 2009 at 4:28 pm #103890
    Kitrae
    Member
    Quote:
    Pictures of the 3rd issue bigmuff that corgan used on the machina tour

    Actually, if you look closely, the Muff in those pictures is the same Muff pictured in the recent Blog. The scratches are all the identical (though the recent photo has a few more), especially the big chip in the red line above the letter M. “AC” is visible on the top, indicating this is a V3 or V4. You can see it if you alter the brightness and contrast of the photo, below.
    BC_Muff_COMPARISON.jpg

    You can also see Billy’s white tick marks showing the same settings as the knobs in his recent photo. The actual knobs in your pedal board photo are not set to those marks, but it looks like the board has not been set up completely yet either. But look closely at the tone knob, It’s almost at 12 o’clock. You can’t do that on a stock V3 since the tone pot is upside down. So from the two photos we have two pots that don’t jive with the V3 pot sweep, just the V4.
    Big_Muff_Pot_Orientations.jpg

    Interesting. Are you sure those photos are from the Machina tour? (EDIT – Never mind. I see Billy’s Cenobite skirt! It’s Machina)

    November 19, 2009 at 12:30 am #103905
    asalinasc
    Participant

    haha no problem mate..
    and also u can check the songs labels on the pedalboard too
    Pug Wound cashcar..etc..

    my guesses are that the Corgan’s muff is a V3 4 Transistor Version. I’m gonna mod my bigmuff with the schematics of those versions i have.

    November 19, 2009 at 12:38 am #103906
    devnulljp
    Participant
    Quote:
    my guesses are that the Corgan’s muff is a V3 4 Transistor Version. I’m gonna mod my bigmuff with the schematics of those versions i have.

    That’ll be hard — v3 is 4 transistors and v4 is a pair of ICs… :-)

    November 19, 2009 at 12:54 am #103907
    Kitrae
    Member
    Quote:
    haha no problem mate..
    and also u can check the songs labels on the pedalboard too
    Pug Wound cashcar..etc..

    my guesses are that the Corgan’s muff is a V3 4 Transistor Version. I’m gonna mod my bigmuff with the schematics of those versions i have.

    Either a V3 or V4 will be very close in SD tone when doing rhythm stuff. Are those your photos?

    I just noticed when posting over at the Gear Forum that the tone knob is almost at 11:30 in your pedal board photo, past the word OFF. A stock V3 pot won’t go that far because it is mounted upside down on the V3. It should stop at the “O”. So two marks against it being a V3.

    November 19, 2009 at 2:28 am #103911
    asalinasc
    Participant

    no, not mine..
    i found those like 8 years ago or even more on a site
    that is no longer available.

    gonna do my benchmarks tests again.

    November 20, 2009 at 12:54 pm #103963
    martinkenz03
    Member

    Hello Friends.
    There are some V3 big muffs that contains the transistor version inside. The Circuit is a 1980 4 transistor NPN version of the big muff. This one is really close to the actual USA version with minor differences.

    November 20, 2009 at 2:16 pm #103964
    Kitrae
    Member
    Quote:
    Hello Friends.
    There are some V3 big muffs that contains the transistor version inside. The Circuit is a 1980 4 transistor NPN version of the big muff. This one is really close to the actual USA version with minor differences.

    Martinkenz, actually all V3 Big Muffs are transistor circuits. They were made from around 1976-1978. Op-amp version 4 and V5 tone bypass Muffs were made from 1978 until around 1981. From then until E-H closed its doors in 1984, only the transistor tone bypass Muff was made, version 6.

    They all more or less looked the same outside, with some minor differences in the graphics. All of them are detailed in the Big Muff Page in my signature, below.

    November 25, 2009 at 4:50 pm #104227
    visualdistortion
    Member
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Pictures of the 3rd issue bigmuff that corgan used on the machina tour

    Actually, if you look closely, the Muff in those pictures is the same Muff pictured in the recent Blog. The scratches are all the identical (though the recent photo has a few more), especially the big chip in the red line above the letter M. “AC” is visible on the top, indicating this is a V3 or V4. You can see it if you alter the brightness and contrast of the photo, below.
    BC_Muff_COMPARISON.jpg

    You can also see Billy’s white tick marks showing the same settings as the knobs in his recent photo. The actual knobs in your pedal board photo are not set to those marks, but it looks like the board has not been set up completely yet either. But look closely at the tone knob, It’s almost at 12 o’clock. You can’t do that on a stock V3 since the tone pot is upside down. So from the two photos we have two pots that don’t jive with the V3 pot sweep, just the V4.
    Big_Muff_Pot_Orientations.jpg

    Interesting. Are you sure those photos are from the Machina tour? (EDIT – Never mind. I see Billy’s Cenobite skirt! It’s Machina)

    So after your super post, we can say that Billy use a 77 Op AMP Big Muff. I’ve finded this message on a website:

    There were only some 2000 of these circuits made; Billy Corgan has a couple, so you can hear them all over Smashing Pumpkins recordings.

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