Home › Forums › Vintage EHX › Big Muff Versions!
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December 24, 2008 at 8:39 pm #77439Ned FlandersModeratorFebruary 20, 2009 at 6:50 am #93659KitraeMember
Those are good articles, some of the first ones I found on the web when I started researching Big Muffs. Some of the dates are wrong, but a good history.
February 20, 2009 at 8:43 am #93664Ted WarigoMemberQuote:Those are good articles, some of the first ones I found on the web when I started researching Big Muffs. Some of the dates are wrong, but a good history.What a wonderful page your Big Muff story !!! Thank you
February 20, 2009 at 10:35 am #93671Ned FlandersModeratorQuote:Those are good articles, some of the first ones I found on the web when I started researching Big Muffs. Some of the dates are wrong, but a good history.Some of your big muff info is inaccurate. I noticed a few things and I will compile a list of them later.
I noticed you have a least 3 of my big muffs on your page too.LOL
A few of your version number designations are wrong also and you are missing the 2007 and 2008 NYC RI Big Muffs.
Once I post a list you can amend your site and it should be good.Coincidentally, I’m making a Big Muff site myself.
Also so you know, the 77 and 78 opamp Big muffs used one LM741 and one RC4558 not two LM741’s.February 20, 2009 at 1:38 pm #93681KitraeMemberQuote:Quote:Those are good articles, some of the first ones I found on the web when I started researching Big Muffs. Some of the dates are wrong, but a good history.Some of your big muff info is inaccurate. I noticed a few things and I will compile a list of them later.
I noticed you have a least 3 of my big muffs on your page too.LOL
A few of your version number designations are wrong also and you are missing the 2007 and 2008 NYC RI Big Muffs.
Once I post a list you can amend your site and it should be good.Coincidentally, I’m making a Big Muff site myself.
Also so you know, the 77 and 78 opamp Big muffs used one LM741 and one RC4558 not two LM741’s.By all means, please let me know if you find anything inaccurate that you can verify, and thanks in advance. I find new info practically every week that lets me clear up inaccuracies, and that is the main reason I am looking here. There were not that many posters in the beginning but this forum seems to be growing a bit.
Most of the pix I used came from other sources, many emailed to me by people on forums I frequent, so I have no idea where half of them came from. I big chunk of those are from my collection. Which are yours?
Regarding the version numbers, I decided to re-number the versions I have seen used elsewhere for reasons I state in the article, and I defined what makes a “version” in my opinion. I’m sure others will disagree.
Regarding the RI Muffs, which interest me the least unfortunately, sorry, I don’t have everything up to date. I’m slowly adding info. I have seen the different mother boards, but I have not compared them to see if there are any major component changes to warrant calling them a new version. Any help would be appreciated.
Regarding the op-amps, my first one had two LM741s, pots dated 1978. I just got another 78 a few weeks back but I have not checked the op-amp numbers yet (Edit – I just checked, one UA741CP and one RC4558). Most of the op-amp photos I have seen of other op-amps clearly show the two different types, I just never updated the description to say both were made. You seem to be the op-amp guy, so let me know of anything else you find.
February 20, 2009 at 8:51 pm #93729Ned FlandersModeratorYea, I find new info all the time myself. If you had an IC muff with two 741’s two things could of happened, either the builder made a mistake or someone has swapped it out because I have the first IC muff factory EHX schematic and it definitely calls for a 741 and a 4558. The first IC muff came in in 77 BTW it was a 3003 PCB which is odd because it shares nothing in common with the 3003 ramshead muff, the schematic I have is dated March 77. Most version 4 muffs have 77 pots too. They only sold the version 4 for around a year then they swapped to version 5 with tone bypass, they also changed the PCB to the 1322 version. Even though there are only two opamp versions there are at least three different PCB layouts.
The muffs on your page that are mine are the gut shots of the 78 version 5 opamp muff, the 1981 version 6 muff and the tonewicker muff..
Regarding the 2007 and 2008 RI NYC muffs, there are enough component changes to call them another version, they are designated by EHX as (2007) 3003-B(2008), 3003-C, I have both schematics for these too. The PCB layout and way the 3003-C is wired has changes significantly from the 3003-A model too.
I like that you include the sovtek muffs because they are some of the best looking muffs around IMO.
BTW, I am sure Howard Davis is the designer of the opamp muffs.
My Big Muff site wont include any company history like yours so I’m glade some one else done that. Mine will have all big muff version info and pics and detailed info about component swaps between versions, mods that I have put together and all the schematics for each version so people can service their muffs if need be.
I’ll check thru your site again today and make notes of what I see wrong and post it here so you can correct it.
February 20, 2009 at 9:19 pm #93732KitraeMemberQuote:Yea, I find new info all the time myself. If you had an IC muff with two 741’s two things could of happened, either the builder made a mistake or someone has swapped it out because I have the first IC muff factory EHX schematic and it definitely calls for a 741 and a 4558. The first IC muff came in in 77 BTW it was a 3003 PCB which is odd because it shares nothing in common with the 3003 ramshead muff, the schematic I have is dated March 77. Most version 4 muffs have 77 pots too. They only sold the version 4 for around a year then they swapped to version 5 with tone bypass, they also changed the PCB to the 1322 version. Even though there are only two opamp versions there are at least three different PCB layouts.The muffs on your page that are mine are the gut shots of the 78 version 5 opamp muff, the 1981 version 6 muff and the tonewicker muff..
Yes, I think I have all of that info on my site. I just updated the op-amp numbers. Apparently I had a rare op-amp. I have not put any of the schematics on my site since they are on numerous other sites, but it would be nice to have one wesite that includes them all to reference. Let me know when you get yours up and I’ll link to it.
How do you like the Tonewicker? I still have not gotten around to buying one. I keep blowing my extra cash on vintage Muffs!
By the way, if you don’t want your pix on my site for some reason let me know and I’ll trade them out for others. I have hundreds of Muff pix, and I probably have too much repetition already for a few versions.
February 20, 2009 at 9:35 pm #93735KitraeMemberAre you saying the first op-amp came out in 77 because most pots are dated 77, and the schematic is 77? Or do you have another source for that? The reason I have 78 on my site is that two collectors I deal with say it did not actually ship until 78, but it would be nice to verify that.
February 20, 2009 at 9:43 pm #93736Ned FlandersModeratorI remember someone online telling me they bought one in 77, I have nothing to verify it with and its just word of mouth so your guess is as good as mine as to the accuracy of this.LOL
You can use my pics, its no problem!
The wicker muff is seriously one of the best sound big muff revisions around. Even in normal mode its very cool.Here’s some things I noticed and some info I added too, nothing major really, just a few minor details:
THE “RAM’S HEAD” BIG MUFF – VERSION 2
TYPO>You list 2N5088 as a PNP transistor, it should be NPN.
THE OP-AMP BIG MUFF – VERSION 4
The version 4 could have been out as early as 77. You made a typo on the UA741, it reads UA751. You have my 1978 version 5 muff picture under your version 4 description AND under you version 5 description.THE OP-AMP “TONE BYPASS” BIG MUFF – VERSION 5
You list version 5 coming out in 78 or 79, it was 78. This I am 100% certain.Civil war metal can transistors are called a “TO-18” package, the black plastic ones have a “TO-92” package.
THE SOVTEK “GREEN RUSSIAN” BIG MUFF
Only two component changes where made from the civil war muffs.
They contained high gain transistors.THE SOVTEK “BLACK RUSSIAN” BIG MUFF (SMALL BOX)
There are two versions of this box, one with four screws (current) and the one before it with six screws which was heavy duty.
THE USA RE-ISSUE RED AND BLACK BIG MUFF – VERSION 8
3003B and 3003C use BC550C transistors.THE LITTLE BIG MUFF RE-ISSUE – VERSION 9
This isn’t a RI of the NYC in a smaller box, its schematic differs significantly form the NYC, you could call it a variation of the NYC.TONE WICKER MUFF
Uses BC550C transistors.Thats about it, like I said its nothing major.
February 21, 2009 at 2:00 am #93745KitraeMemberThanks very much. Every bit helps. I had a few questions about your notes, in brackets below.
KitTHE “RAM’S HEAD” BIG MUFF – VERSION 2
TYPO>You list 2N5088 as a PNP transistor, it should be NPN.
(Funny. I have gone back and forth on that one, as I have been told both. I know now it is negative ground, just forgot I never fixed it!)Civil war metal can transistors are called a “TO-18” package, the black plastic ones have a “TO-92” package.
(Do you know what the actual Russian transistor numbers were?)THE SOVTEK “GREEN RUSSIAN” BIG MUFF
Only two component changes where made from the civil war muffs.
They contained high gain transistors.
(I have been told these were lower gain/lower power than the US Muff transistors. I think I read that on a few Muff mod forums as well. Do you mean they are actually higher gain than the US versions, or that the Russian Es are classified as high gain?)THE SOVTEK “BLACK RUSSIAN” BIG MUFF (SMALL BOX)
There are two versions of this box, one with four screws (current) and the one before it with six screws which was heavy duty.
(yeah, I have both pictured, just never updated the descrip)THE USA RE-ISSUE RED AND BLACK BIG MUFF – VERSION 8
3003B and 3003C use BC550C transistors.
(Thanks. I just added these with the years. I would like to see the schematics for all three. Are there component changes or just some value changes?)THE LITTLE BIG MUFF RE-ISSUE – VERSION 9
This isn’t a RI of the NYC in a smaller box, its schematic differs significantly form the NYC, you could call it a variation of the NYC.
(I knew that as well, but I never updated the descrip here either. I just fixed that one. That’s the main reason I gave this a new version number)Thanks again.
February 21, 2009 at 6:09 am #93751Ned FlandersModerator2n5088 is definitely NPN, I build effects and I use them all the time. All PNP Big Muffs were positive ground and all NPN were negative ground.
Russian trannies are weird, some are marked some are not, i have the numbers of some, i’ll find them and post them.
The green sovtek transistors are about 700hFE, the same as the US RI versaion, 700 is considered high gain. I know the gain because I removed them and measured them.
With the 3 RI’s there are value changes and types of component changes. I’ll PM you the schematics.February 21, 2009 at 2:28 pm #93761Fender&EHX4everModeratorI hope Mike Matthews is reading this. This is the Star Trek Convention version of Electro-Harmonix fans. Love it!
Only now, you’ve got me wanting to collect Deluxe Memory Man units, instead of Muffs. Oh the horror!
February 21, 2009 at 4:46 pm #93765KitraeMemberQuote:2n5088 is definitely NPN, I build effects and I use them all the time. All PNP Big Muffs were positive ground and all NPN were negative ground.
Russian trannies are weird, some are marked some are not, i have the numbers of some, i’ll find them and post them.
The green sovtek transistors are about 700hFE, the same as the US RI versaion, 700 is considered high gain. I know the gain because I removed them and measured them.
With the 3 RI’s there are value changes and types of component changes. I’ll PM you the schematics.I have read that the Green Russian Muffs tranys were marked SPT87-103, though none of my old Russian Muffs have any markings. The first small box Black Russian I played had BC549Cs in it.
Regarding the hFE on the older Sovteks, I was told they (Civil Wars and dozens of Greens measured) averaged around 500 and the USA Muffs with 2N5088s averaged around 700-800. That is why I list the Russians as lower gain than the USA Muffs. They may not all be lower gain since the hFE range is quite broad.
February 21, 2009 at 11:55 pm #93788Ned FlandersModeratorAlso the tolerances of parts used on the sovtek muffs are all over the place IMO, this is what gives so much variation in sound.
The biggest mistake the sovtek muff designer made was using .047uF caps in the clipping section, this makes them woofy/boomy and increasing these two caps to .22uF gets rid of it.
I personally hate the sound of sovtek muffs stock, I love the look of them though that’s why I have three and plan on getting a few more different ones.
I don’t like the sound of the triangle muff or the first ramshead either, they are too thin compared to the version 6 ,opamp, and RI muffs. The version 6 3034 is probably the best of all older muffs IMO, this is account on the 2N5088’s and the 1uF caps allowing more bass thru the circuit, the triangle and first ramsheads have a bunch of .1uF caps thru the circuit which limits bass too much IMO plus the triangle and ramsheads are very low gain compared to V6.February 22, 2009 at 9:59 pm #93820Ned FlandersModeratorI just read thru your site again, all looks good now!
I’ll upload them 3 schematics today and get them to you. -
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