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  • November 25, 2009 at 4:44 pm #104226
    Kitrae
    Member
    Quote:
    ok, I believe that for you it is all about the sound, but can I suggest to you that you are in a very small minority? …. and the reason they sell for high prices on ebay is due in a big part to vintage guitar equipment collectors and investors that are not buying them for the sound.

    ……If EHX did re-issue them, why would they need to have ‘the exact graphics and original case’ like you suggest for them to be a success if it’s only the sound that people are buying them for? … You know why!!!!! looks, looks, looks. :)

    I don’t think I am in a small minority at all. I’m sure many people love the looks, but I hear from people every single day through my Big Muff Page website. Several hundred this year. I have never talked to anyone who bought, is looking to buy, or collects vintage Muffs simply because they like the looks. Not a single one. Questions and our discussions are almost always centered around components and sound, then about differences in versions. The only time looks come up is regarding identification of versions. The only Muff I have ever heard people talk about how cool they look are the 1990s Sovteks.

    I would also add that practically every time a vintage RH, V3, or Triangle goes up on ebay I get several emails from people looking to buy their first vintage Muff asking my opinion. Usually I get asked what questions they need to ask the seller regarding the sound, if mods have been made, or if all components look original. They don’t want some modded or defective Muff that won’t sound right. If people were just buying for looks I would likely not be getting all this email.

    But my point was, a reissue should not only sound as close to an original as is possible on a modern production pedal, but it should LOOK like the original it is supposed to be replicating. Imagine the Dynacomp script reissue with the original sound in a completely different enclosure with no script, or a Rat reissue with the original chip in a smaller modern Rat II box. I’m buying it for the vintage sound, but I would much prefer it look like the original vintage dyna, or Rat. It’s all part of the mojo around a vintage pedal. A reissue in a modern nano box will not cut it. If EHX tried to market that it would fail.

    November 25, 2009 at 6:01 pm #104240
    Kitrae
    Member
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    I am glad someone agrees with me! The new Big Muffs just do not compete with the older ones!

    based on what? 😆

    ……..all this misty eyed nostalgia it all well and good, but lets face it the reason those old muff’s fetch what they do has nothing to do with how they sound. Do you really think EHX have forgotten how to make a big muff?

    Exactly. Very apt my friend. Very apt indeed.

    I don’t agree that modern Muffs sound like crap compared to vintage ones. I like them all, but they ARE different guys. All Big Muffs have that distinct diode clipped sound to them, but there were MANY intentional component value changes to the Muff circuit by EH for the various versions that altered the sound. Just look at the schematics if you don’t have access to the different versions to hear it. Some were subtle changes, some were not, but they were intentional. I assume EHX thought they were improvements, or just mods to keep up with current trends in sound perhaps.

    Several value changes were made to the Sovteks also, and the same is happening with the current USA Muffs. Fran Blanche was the person responsible for the 2000 reissue Big Muff, the V9. She was directed by Mike Matthews to revamp the circuit. They had no intention of copying exactly any previous circuit. There have been a few changes to the V9 circuit since then, and then another circuit version was made for the Little Big Muff. Now we have the Tone Wicker version. Hopefully we will continue to see other changes in the future. It keeps Big Muffs interesting.

    November 25, 2009 at 8:10 pm #104249
    Kitrae
    Member

    The second edition Red Army/Civil War is my favorite Sovtek, but my all time favorite is the V2 Ram’s Head/V3 tone. Nothing quite like that when cranked through a clean Fender Twin :)

    November 27, 2009 at 8:03 pm #104315
    devnulljp
    Participant
    Quote:
    Yep very true. It’s not that there not different. I’m just agreeing that most people buy them because of vintage mojo or because there legendary more so then how they sound. Personally for me the 2000’s russian black box big muff is my favorite of all sound wise.

    Curious how many of the old ones you’ve A/B’ed with your black Russian.Maybe you tried a dog vintage with dried up electrolytics or something (or got lucky with the Russian), but I agree with Kitrae about the v2 muff. They sound great. Nothing to do with mojo. I’ve played a few of those as well as triangles, v3, ICs, v6 3034, Sovteks, and NY RIs. My favourites so far are a Guild Foxey Lady, a nice ram’s head and I have one triangle that sounds fantastic with my gear. The couple of black Russians I’ve tried were not that great.
    I was kinda excited about hte tone wicker, and it does sound pretty good, but it’s noisy.

    January 10, 2010 at 3:04 pm #106282
    WatsonWood
    Member

    I am for the re-issue of the Deluxe Big Muff with integrated compressor in an XO enclosure. The Soul Preacher has been re-issued in Nano form already, so EHX have all the updated elements to re-issue the DBM.

    February 17, 2010 at 9:15 pm #107631
    Kitrae
    Member
    Quote:
    Very true.

    Actually I havent a/b tested any other muffs with my black russian one. As soon as I tried the 2000 russian one it was exactly what I wanted. I just clicked it on and turned the knobs to whatever sounded good at the moment and Boom! exactly the tone I was looking for. later I tried the current USA BMP and little muff and a few others but they didnt have what i was going for. So I went back to the russian. But I never really tested side by side. But like I said I agree that every version is differnt and subject to taste. And the whole “mojo” statement thing I was saying is from talking to other people who shelled out big bucks for a vintage triangle rams head something or other because Gilmour or someone used it on this or that recording. They bought it unheard and untested because its mythic. Its also very true that with the russian ones you can be lucky and get a good one or you can get a crap one. this seems to be true for the USA ones as well.
    I wonder if someone side by side tested lets say 10 of the legendary v2 BMP’s how much varience would there be between each one? Odds are you would find a favorite among the crowd.

    I just did this recently with seven V2 Muffs and 10 of the 1990s Sovteks. I recorded it, but listening back, I’m not sure too many people would notice the differences from one to another, except for two of them. I can hear the differences when I play in front of my amp, but with a backing track or band, not sure many people could tell. The Sovteks did have a lot more variance than I thought, listening back, but again, with a band playing, not sure sure you could hear much of the treble/bass/clarity differences in an mp3.

    Now, listening to a V2 and a reissue – Huge difference. Listen to the comparison clip 1 for each here if you want to hear why people shell out big bucks for older Muffs.
    http://www.kitrae.net/music/Music_mp3_Big_Muff_Sound.html

    February 17, 2010 at 10:20 pm #107634
    Ned Flanders
    Moderator

    Kit, strangely enough I’ve never asked you this, how many big muffs do you actually own? I own 10 working ones/12 in total and I know you own way more than me….so how many? 30? 40?

    February 17, 2010 at 10:42 pm #107636
    Kitrae
    Member

    Right now, exactly 30 factory Muffs, including the one Mr. M just sent me. But I am always buying, selling or trading them, so it may be different next month. Sometimes I’ll buy one just to play it and photograph it, then I’ll sell it again. I have a bunch I need to get rid of right now. There are only about six of them that are my keepers. The V2’s I mentioned above were not all mine, by the way, but the Sovteks are. I have a crapload of them.

    February 17, 2010 at 11:03 pm #107637
    Ned Flanders
    Moderator

    Yeah I thought you had at least 30.LMAO you put j mascis to shame!!!

    If you ever sell a CW (color is irrelevant) email me about it first before putting on ebay or whatever, I’ll likely try and buy if from you.

    I’m buying the 2008 3003-C next week, i haven’t bought a modern muff in a while…since the TW anyways and I want that one for the collection as it sounds unbelievable. other than that I think one of the next ones will be a bubble font cast sovtek as I already have three tall fonts from 94 (i think you said they’re from 94) or so and dont really need anymore of them.

    :)

    February 17, 2010 at 11:21 pm #107639
    Kitrae
    Member

    Yeah, too many, I know. It is just not the time to sell them right now and make my money back.

    There were five CWs on ebay here just this past week. None had been available for a few months, then bam, they all hit at once.

    February 17, 2010 at 11:33 pm #107640
    Ned Flanders
    Moderator

    Yeah I saw that but some had faults/were modified.

    February 18, 2010 at 2:50 am #107650
    Kitrae
    Member

    Yeah, they were pretty f’d up. There was a very nice blue box CW on there that closed a few days ago. The guy knew what he had and set his ad up well. Sold for $635.

    February 18, 2010 at 3:08 am #107651
    Ned Flanders
    Moderator

    Yep, saw that one. if I had the money I would have payed it but I didnt as I’ve just bought a new sovtek in the last few weeks so my big muff fund is low.

    I’ll get it up again and get a CW eventually, I’ll just sit on the money.

    What about that idiot that said his CW was all original except for being TB by keely and it took him (keely) 25 hours to work out how to TB it, did you see that? Its bullshit as I could TB a sovtek in 10 minutes when I was first getting into electronics. SO unless keely is a complete idiot this guy is full of spin.
    Then you see gut shots and all the original militarty styled wiring harness is gutted and replaced…all original my ass.

    I wont buy modified muffs, I’ll by broken ones (depends whats broken though) but never modified ones as there’s only a few people in the world I trust to touch my big muffs with a soldering iron and I’m one of them.

    February 18, 2010 at 3:21 am #107653
    Kitrae
    Member

    I got a huge laugh when I read that one! I really don’t believe it. It was almost too ridiculous to be true…but you never know. I have heard some odd things about some of the more respected makers in this community by people I know and trust. Makes me wonder sometimes who really knows what and who is screwing who over. I tend to think we are better than that overall.

    February 18, 2010 at 9:14 am #107659
    Ned Flanders
    Moderator

    That is true. You know the guy “Aen” (his real name is Ben) from dwarfcraft devices?, well he was asking me how a 3PDT switch works and how to add tone controls in to fuzzes, adding sag controls and make passive feedback loopers one month then the next year ( less than 6 months later) he’s a so called boutiquer and all the cool stores are stocking his misaligned and shoddy drilled boxes. The pedal biz is really a crazy one, overnight solder jockeys get huge success and then skillful people can get none.

    This is one example of at least 3 I’ve seen in the past two years happen. First I’m getting PM’s about novice stuff then they are selling US$180 “boutique” pedals!

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