Home Forums Help/Technical Questions How exactly do you “bounce” the mixdown track to other tracks like manual (vaguely) says you can do on the 45000?

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  • #84467
    CONTEMPL8
    Participant

    In the manual for the 45000 looper recorder it says you can take a mixdown track and “bounce” to another track, but I have no idea how to do this specifically, and it doesn’t elaborate at all in the manual, and uses vague wording. Here’s what is says: “Using external cables, you could bounce the Mixdown track back to one or two of the recorded tracks. If you do this remember to push down the DRY OUT slider so that unwanted feedback is not introduced.” What does this mean and how do you do it? Please give step by step and be hyper specific, don’t take it for granted that we will know what you mean by something, instead explain it thoroughly.

    I take this to mean that after you mixdown, you can take that mixdown track and put it on track 1 for example, which would allow you to then record 3 more tracks, and then mix them all down together again on a new mixdown track. This would indeed be very useful, since the limitation of only 4 tracks is problematic often times. But, again, there is no actual detailed instruction for how to accomplish this. I tried doing what I thought it meant and it didn’t work. I mixed down the 4 tracks on a loop, and then popped the SD card into my laptop and copied the mixdown track, then renamed the copy track1.wav (replacing the original track1), but when I put the SD card back into the 45000, it would nolonger play. I notice that the mixdown track is about twice the size of individual tracks 1-4, so that to me means something, but I don’t know what. Anyways, please help and tell me how to do the bounce of the mixdown track to track 1 and have it actually work so that the loop will still playback and work on the 45000 afterwards.

    Thank you.

    #121679

    The 45000 allows you to overdub onto the Mixdown track in a similar fashion to how you overdub onto the four main tracks where you add new audio with each pass of the loop. The best technique for adding more tracks to the Mixdown track is to use this overdub feature. Here are some tips for building up and adding to the Mixdown track:

    1. Fill up the four main tracks. I assume the Mixdown track is currently empty.
    2. Push the Mixdown slider down to its minimum position. Press the Mixdown slider so that it’s LED is lit which means it is now the active track.
    3. Press the record button (both the REC and PLAY LEDs should be lit). You are now mixing your 4 tracks to the Mixdown track.
    4. After you mix at least one full pass of the loop onto the Mixdown track, press the RECORD button to put the 45000 into PLAY mode, push the Mixdown slider up to maximum and mute the other 4 tracks by pushing them down to their minimum positions. You are now listening to the Mixdown track. If you are not happy with the Mixdown track, go back to step 2. If you are happy proceed to step 5.
    5. Record new audio on the 4 main tracks while listening to the Mixdown track. At this point there is already audio on the 4 main tracks so you will most likely want to engage PUNCHIN mode while recording the first pass of any of the four main tracks.
    6. Once all four main tracks are filled, they can be overdubbed onto the Mixdown track. Make sure the MIXDOWN slider is at maximum, set up the 4 main tracks as you want them. Press the Mixdown button so that its LED is lit and then press RECORD to record the new material onto the Mixdown track. On this step it is important that the MIXDOWN slider is set to maximum because its slider sets both its volume and the overdub amount. If the slider is below maximum, the previously recorded audio on the Mixdown slider will increasingly be reduced in volume with each psas of the loop.
    7. Once the second Mixdown is complete, go back to Step 4 and repeat the process as many times as you like.

    #121680
    CONTEMPL8
    Participant

    Ok thanks Flick, good info, but its not what I was wanting to know. Curious though, in step 2 you said set the slider to minimum, is that right? Seems like it should be set to maximum, not minimum. I was asking about “bouncing” the completed mixdown to one of the normal tracks like the quote talks about doing above. Here’s the quote again: “Using external cables, you could bounce the Mixdown track back to one or two of the recorded tracks. If you do this remember to push down the DRY OUT slider so that unwanted feedback is not introduced.” Can you explain this specific procedure more thoroughly, what is meant by what the quote said? What kind of external cables is it talking about? Is it talking about doing something on a computer via USB? or something else? In any event, once I know what cables, then I would need to know what to do with those cables step by step. If you can help that would be great.

    #121683

    Step 2, set Mixdown slider to minimum is correct. That way you don’t have to be careful about when you start and stop recording the Mixdown track, as long as you get at least one full pass during Mixdown record.

    The manual is suggesting that you connect the 45000’s Left and Right output jacks to its Left and Right Input jacks with 1/4″ instrument cables. So you record the output of the Mixdown track back into the input of the 45000. You have to be sure the DRY slider is at minimum so it does not introduce positive feedback and the 4 main track sliders should be at minimum as well. If you record onto just one of the main tracks, it will convert the Mixdown track to mono. If you do a stereo recording then the Mixdown track remains stereo.

    #121699
    CONTEMPL8
    Participant

    Ok great thanks Flick! Is there any loss of quality by doing that via cables from output back to input?

    Also, regarding step 2 again, I thought if you have the slider set to minimum that you end up with really low signal and the volume is not loud enough, and then its basically unuseable?

    #121700
    Quote:
    Ok great thanks Flick! Is there any loss of quality by doing that via cables from output back to input?

    Also, regarding step 2 again, I thought if you have the slider set to minimum that you end up with really low signal and the volume is not loud enough, and then its basically unuseable?

    There could be some loss of audio quality by bouncing via cables but if the gain structure is set up correctly, it shouldn’t be too noticeable. Personally I think you are better off leaving the Mixdown track where it is and overdubbing on top of it with new tracks.

    Regarding the placement of the Mixdown slider in step 2, when it is set to minimum, any audio that was previously on the Mixdown track is erased as you record onto the Mixdown track. The new audio that is recorded is not effected by the Mixdown slider’s setting.

    The reason you might want to set the Mixdown slider to its minimum position, for your first Mixdown recording only, is so that you do not have to be careful about where you start and stop Mixdown recording. If you happen to record 1.5x the loop cycle during the initial Mixdown, the section of the loop that recorded twice onto the Mixdown track will not jump up in volume, it will still sound like you mixed just one loop cycle. If you did this with the Mixdown slider set to max, the section of loop that was recorded twice will jump in volume on the Mixdown track because it has been recorded twice.

    After you finish your initial Mixdown recording, move the Mixdown slider to its maximum position.

    #121739
    CONTEMPL8
    Participant

    Ok thanks for the good info! I still would love to see EHX remake the 45000 with 4 inputs and 8 or 16 tracks so that I can do more, and recording jam sessions with four instruments. I think it would really revolutionize DIY recording for those of us do our best stuff off the cuff and want to make sure we capture it and can separate out each instrument. I think it would be extremely popular and take a huge chunk of market share, because a lot of us don’t like DAW’s and just want to stomp on record and get it all rather than have to fumble with a mouse and a computer etc. Also, if EHX were to do this I’d like to also see the following: loop number read out and up and down loop buttons on the main console, plus have time clock and rewind and fast forward capability, and also have a button that can clone a loop and bounce all its tracks to another loop, which would be much easier and have no loss compared to the method with extra cables that you described, so you can mess around with the clone and still have the original to go back to, sort of like on Photoshop how you can save a copy, because if you do a lot of changes sometimes you realize you want to go back to earlier stuff and this would preserve that very reliably.

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