Home Forums Help/Technical Questions Good MIDI foot controller for 2880?

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  • #82071
    feralchild
    Member

    I am interested in finding a simple (and compact) 4-5 button midi foot controller. I am mostly interested in being able to send MUTE/UNMUTE signals to each of the 4 channels. Since I also send midi clock to the 2880, whatever foot controller I find will have to be able to pass that clock information through, while adding CC messages to control the mutes.

    I have looked at the 2880 manual and it looks like I need something that I can program to send specific CCs (81-84). The fifth button (if available) would be used for punch-in.

    HOWEVER I am still a bit of a MIDI noob and I am not sure what I need to buy. Based on these requirements, can anyone suggest an appropriate MIDI controller?

    Here are a couple I found so far:

    Randall 4 Button Midi Footswitch
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/randall-4-button-midi-footswitch
    Doesn’t look like it has any MIDI input. Also, is this programmable? On a unit like this, how would I specify button 1 to be CC#81, button 2 to be CC#82, etc?

    Midi Solutions footswitch controller – about $150
    http://www.midisolutions.com/prodfsw.htm
    This looks promising because I can use it with any footswitch, so that means flexibility. My rig and MIDI setup is constantly evolving so flexibility is important. And it is fully programmable via software.

    It’s a bit pricey, and I would still have to buy a footswitch pedal with 4+ buttons. So I am still researching…

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    #116613
    Cryabetes
    Participant

    the Randall one is more for midi-switching rigs, like where the guitarist has a bunch of different racks for his Van Halen effects, his Nitro effects, his Scorpions effects, etc.

    the midi solutions one would work but you’d need four or five for what you’re talking about.

    The softstep would be an option but i’m not sure if that’s a standalone item or if you’d need a laptop to run it.

    The Digitech PDS 3500 would be an option but you’d need four of them and a midi merge box.

    a modded Behringer FCB1010 would probably be the best bet.

    Or there’s a roland one too, that’s a bit smaller than the 1010 but I can’t recall offhand what that one is.

    #116614
    feralchild
    Member
    Quote:
    the midi solutions one would work but you’d need four or five for what you’re talking about.

    Thanks for the response. This is the question I was just thinking about.

    But wouldn’t it be possible to have several buttons on a footswitch with 1/4″ stereo (Tip+Ring+Sleeve) output? I.E. the Digitech FS3X?

    Midi Solutions also sells a rack mounted version with 8 footswitch inputs – but I think this is overkill for what I’m trying to do. In addition to cost, one of my priorities here is real estate, and I don’t currently use any rack effects.

    Another option I have been thinking about is using my computer to send the appropriate CCs, and building some kind of DIY floor switch out of an old keyboard or something. However, until now I have successfully kept my guitar rig entirely independent of the computer (meaning it will work the same without it) and I’d like to keep it that way.

    I will look into your other suggestions. Thanks again.

    #116624
    Cryabetes
    Participant
    Quote:
    Quote:
    the midi solutions one would work but you’d need four or five for what you’re talking about.

    Thanks for the response. This is the question I was just thinking about.

    But wouldn’t it be possible to have several buttons on a footswitch with 1/4″ stereo (Tip+Ring+Sleeve) output? I.E. the Digitech FS3X?

    yes, but your equipment has to be set up for it- there’s some physical circuitry wizardry going on with the digitech fs3x.

    Quote:
    Midi Solutions also sells a rack mounted version with 8 footswitch inputs – but I think this is overkill for what I’m trying to do. In addition to cost, one of my priorities here is real estate, and I don’t currently use any rack effects.

    Don’t underestimate some rack stuff- you can use it as a floor for a pedal board or mounted under your board, especially if it’s just footswitches/triggers.

    Quote:
    Another option I have been thinking about is using my computer to send the appropriate CCs, and building some kind of DIY floor switch out of an old keyboard or something. However, until now I have successfully kept my guitar rig entirely independent of the computer (meaning it will work the same without it) and I’d like to keep it that way.

    I will look into your other suggestions. Thanks again.

    yeah yeah that works well too. when I saw EOTO last year, that’s what michael travis had done rather than buy another footcontroller. And yeah, i’m not a fan of having to rely on my computer for music work.

    #116636
    feralchild
    Member
    Quote:
    yeah yeah that works well too. when I saw EOTO last year, that’s what michael travis had done rather than buy another footcontroller.

    ha that’s exactly where i got the idea lol – eoto is sick.

    As long as I’m in my studio, my computer and interface is right next to my guitar rig so it’s no prob. But if I want to make this a stand-alone pedalboard, I’d much rather have a simple little box that can send the CCs I need. The stupid NanoKontrols and other cheap micro-midi controllers out there only have USB and are useless without a computer. Looks like just building something may be the best route for getting the exact device I need… maybe it’s time I learned about Arduino.

    In the meantime I’ve routed my MIDI signal thusly: PitchFactor>TimeFactor>Novation 49SL>2880

    I’m able to send the commands from pads, it works well. (Actually it turns out there are no mute CCs, only program messages. So I’m toggling track volume between 127 and 0). It’s a great function to be able to take advantage of the four-trackted nature of the 2880.

    It’s able to receive multiple commands simultaneously, which I didn’t expect since the manual says min 300ms between “each button push message”. But it makes sense now. That threshold should not apply to faders.

    Obviously I would prefer to use pedals to keep my hands free, but this works for now.

    #116643
    Cryabetes
    Participant

    Otherwise if you are running into issues with that 300ms thing, you can use a mute pedal on one of the outs and use the panning to separate them.

    Also i’m pretty sure there’s usb-to-midi hosting devices, just little boxes that’ll host midi stuff, but i’m not familiar with any of them so I couldn’t recommend any.

    #116647
    pv_joker
    Member

    This whole issue is frying my brain a little at the moment as I’m also pretty much new to this type of midi control. I’m currently trying to create a similar set up with the added complication of not one but 2 2880s needing to receive independent midi messages and be synced to a common midi clock. I would definitely prefer the foot controllers to be independent of my laptop.

    I’ve looked into a few solutions and thought that maybe this would do it: Logic Midi clock>Motu Ultralite Midi out>Midi thru box> output 1 and 2 from midi thru to separate behringer fcb1010’s and then from their midi thru into each 2880. I’m not sure if the fcb1010s would carry the midi clock through though.

    Cryabetes, you mentioned being able to possibly use a modded fcb1010, why would it need to be modded? Is it so that it would be a 14″ output? I was assuming that the 2880 would accept midi CC messages through it’s midi inputs and that the fcb1010 could be programed to send these without a laptop, is that not the case?

    Any help would be appreciated as the 2880 has been an inspiring product so far and this could really take it to the next level.

    Cheers.

    #116651
    Cryabetes
    Participant

    There’s some issue with the fcb1010 where its programmability is hindered so it doesn’t infringe on a patent or somethhing. It’s switching out an IC or two (or maybe an eeprom?). If they didn’t pass clock signal as is, you could always get a quadra thru and then merge boxes for clock+fcb signals. Not sure what you mean by 14″ out.

    #116655
    pv_joker
    Member

    Thank you for your reply, things are definitely starting to become a bit clearer.

    I’ve looked into the fcb1010 issue and it appears to be that to cut down on the cost of the unit they’ve used a one time programmable EEPROM so you can’t update the firmware without physically replacing a chip or two. It’s a good thing you mentioned this as I hadn’t come across this issue and was pretty certain this would be an elegant solution.

    After further searching I’m wondering if:

    Rocktron Midi Mate
    http://www.rocktron.com/products/controllers/midimate/

    OR

    Tech 21 Midi Moose
    http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/effects/midimoose.html

    Would do the trick?

    Oh, and I meant to type 1/4″ Jack :)

    #116657
    Cryabetes
    Participant
    Quote:
    Thank you for your reply, things are definitely starting to become a bit clearer.

    I’ve looked into the fcb1010 issue and it appears to be that to cut down on the cost of the unit they’ve used a one time programmable EEPROM so you can’t update the firmware without physically replacing a chip or two. It’s a good thing you mentioned this as I hadn’t come across this issue and was pretty certain this would be an elegant solution.

    After further searching I’m wondering if:

    Rocktron Midi Mate
    http://www.rocktron.com/products/controllers/midimate/

    OR

    Tech 21 Midi Moose
    http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/effects/midimoose.html

    Would do the trick?

    Oh, and I meant to type 1/4″ Jack :)

    those run into the same problem as the Digitech PDS3500 though (minus that they’ll pass stuff through); you’ll need a bunch of them. I’d still say the FCB is the elegant solution and that modding isn’t that much of a problem; in fact, lots of people sell the modded ones.

    Also, the 1/4″ in is for the EHX footswitch, not midi. I mean, it’s probably just using the ground as a voltage send and the tip as a voltage return, with different resistors under each of the fs’s stomps, but that’s not midi.

    #116659
    feralchild
    Member

    @ PV Joker, just a thought – you should be able to control both 2880s independently from the SAME device by setting them to listen to different channels. For example set one to listen on MIDI channel 2 and the other one to listen on channel 3, then you can chain them together in a serial fashion and use the MIDI Moose or some such thing to send commands on different channels (if possible).

    I don’t think MIDI clock is channel specific, at least not on the 2880. (Mine worked for clock even when the channel was mismatched). So you shouldn’t have to worry about sending the clock info on multiple channels, just the CC data.

    If this actually works, it may simplify things and prevent you from having to split or merge anything. I can’t test it because I don’t have the gear, but it works in theory as long as you can find a device that can transmit on multiple channels.

    #116661
    pv_joker
    Member

    @Feralchild, thanks for the input. Sending information on more than one midi channel and setting each device to receive on a specific channel certainly sounds like a solution. I reckon we’ll still need two midi controllers in the long run but this should get us going sooner rather than later and i might look into controlling my rack reverb this way too.


    @Cryabetes
    , I thought as much about the 1/4″ Jack input but thanks for clearing that up. Also, a long shot but you might know: after talking to some folk about the fcb1010 upgrade, I’ve been told that units manufactured recently will have the most up to date EPROM (version 1.7 i think) and would not require the upgrade. Does the fcb1010 require a specially modded EPROM to function properly with the 2880 or would it just need the most up to date EPROM from Behringer themselves?

    Thanks

    #116662
    Cryabetes
    Participant

    No idea; I’d contact Behringer and ask them. Bizarrely, they’re actually responsive and helpful on their facebook page.

    #116663
    pv_joker
    Member

    Fantastic, thank you!

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