Home › Forums › Tips, Tricks, Clips, and Pics › Where to put phaser in chain? Which of these are true bypass?

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  • February 1, 2011 at 1:47 am #81304
    octa805
    Member

    Hey Interwebs,

    I’m overboard on pedals right now. Just bought a MXR Phase 90 (I know, I apologize EH, I should have got a small stone but I got a great deal).

    I put it near the end of my chain and it sounds pretty good. See below:

    Tele->Dunlop Crybaby->Boss Blues Driver->Big Muff Pi NYC-> Micro Metal Muff->XO Worm-Electric Mistress->MXR Carbon Copy->EHX Memory Boy->MXR Phase 90–>EXH LPB-1->Boss RC-2 Looper->VOX AMP

    But I’d like other ideas on what people are doing that sounds good?

    Also, of course with my………11 pedals I have some signal/tone decay along the way so I’m wondering which of these are true bypass on my chain? (or at least advertise themselves as such)

    Thanks!

    February 1, 2011 at 3:27 am #114079
    Mr.Grim
    Member

    i place my phaser (V1 small stone) right after my dirt pedals (OD distortion ect) and it sounds awsome, but thats all personal preference..

    to clean up my signal chain, i use a BBE Sonic Stomp at the end of my chain, i must say ill never play without one agean, and you can get them at a fare price, i got mine used on Ebay for about $40.

    i also use a tube Black finger compressor (on always) at the beginning of my chain, it really helps drive the signal, it has a lot of power/gain of its own!! even if you set the compression low, its like a preamp.

    February 1, 2011 at 4:53 am #114081
    ehxguy11
    Member

    I like to have phase before flanger.

    Boss is buffered and the Crybaby isn’t true bypass. You can check by just looking to see if the switch is blue.

    February 1, 2011 at 4:59 am #114082
    Mr.Grim
    Member

    ^^ yes i agree with this chain completely!

    February 1, 2011 at 11:25 am #114085
    melx
    Member
    Quote:
    I like to have phase before flanger.

    Boss is buffered and the Crybaby isn’t true bypass. You can check by just looking to see if the switch is blue.

    not really…. I’ve seen plenty of pedals with ‘blue switches’ (3 pole double throw/9 solder lugs) that aren’t wired for TB … and others without a 3pdt that are TB, the only way to tell is to check the wiring.

    February 1, 2011 at 12:55 pm #114087
    KartoonHead
    Member

    Well, the best way to see if your pedals are true-bypass or not is to turn them to bypass, and remove the power jack, and see if you still have signal. If not, it’s not true-bypass.

    Some pedals using relays (like the Behringer ‘Vintage’ series, which are just plain EHX copies) might still give you signal, the way to check these is to turn the pedal on, remove the power, then hit the bypass switch, if you aint got signal, you aint got true-bypass.

    February 1, 2011 at 2:04 pm #114088
    Cryabetes
    Participant
    Quote:
    Some pedals using relays (like the Behringer ‘Vintage’ series, which are just plain EHX copies) might still give you signal, the way to check these is to turn the pedal on, remove the power, then hit the bypass switch, if you aint got signal, you aint got true-bypass.

    what?
    wouldn’t hitting the byp. switch with a relay bypass just do nothing [like, you’d still have signal]?

    February 1, 2011 at 2:27 pm #114090
    KartoonHead
    Member
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Some pedals using relays (like the Behringer ‘Vintage’ series, which are just plain EHX copies) might still give you signal, the way to check these is to turn the pedal on, remove the power, then hit the bypass switch, if you aint got signal, you aint got true-bypass.

    what?
    wouldn’t hitting the byp. switch with a relay bypass just do nothing [like, you’d still have signal]?

    Precisely, if it’s got a relay switch and it’s turned on, when you pull out the power jack the relay will be stuck there, so hitting the bypass switch now will not actually bypass the effect as the relay requires power to switch. This leaves you with no bypassed signal, you can then identify it as not being true bypass.

    If you had however bypassed the effect and then removed the power jack, in that order (which works for identifying buffered-bypass pedals), you’d still have signal as the relay would be stuck in bypass, some might argue that this is as-good-as true-bypass, as how much colouration can going through a relay really have on your signal? But still, if you’re gonna be anal about one thing, let it be your tone XD

    Maybe I worded it funny :p

    February 1, 2011 at 5:14 pm #114092
    octa805
    Member

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    I sat down and took forever trying different chain orders last night. Pretty fun exercise really. Except for the part where you have to rip keep moving cables nonstop. that got old fast. ha.

    Tried modulation before dirt, modulation after dirt, before & after delay and moving all the dirt around to cascade into one another in different ways. After all that I’m still not 100% but I think I’m closer.

    I moved the Worm way up ahead of the dirt. It’s not the most powerful effect but I like it and it stands out a lot more further up in the chain.

    I had the Phase 90 way back after my delay mostly because it was really easy to fit it on my board there for a quick test. Per some suggestions on here and my own experimentation I put it after the dirt and before the delay. Sounds really thick and monstrous back there and if I turn off the dirt and turn on the Phase 90, Memory Boy, Carbon Copy and Electric Mistress with the LPB to give it a pretty clean boost you can get some really trippy fun sounds out of this combo.

    The only thing I’m debating is moving the Electric Mistress up in front of the dirt. It sounded good up there and you can hear some of the more distinct weirdness of the tone possibilities there but I kind of prefer it after dirt where it just sends the signal into complete powerful weirdness.

    Big Muff w/ Electric Mistress & LPB on along with the Memory Boy on a fat delay sounds like a wall of noise coming at your face

    Here’s my new version. Tell me if you have any other ideas on order

    Tele->Dunlop Crybaby->XO Worm–>Boss Blues Driver->Big Muff Pi NYC-> Micro Metal Muff->-Electric Mistress->MXR Phase 90—>MXR Carbon Copy->EHX Memory Boy->EXH LPB-1->Boss RC-2 Looper->VOX AMP

    Also, thanks for the tips on the buffering & bypass. I need to try and mess with them.

    I did an extremely basic test. I plugged straight into the amp, played a while and then back into my chain with everything off and compared the sounds.

    I was kind of shocked. I didn’t really lose a whole lot of volume. The tone was different, more tinny and not as bassy as going straight in but not terrible. Kind of surprising.

    Maybe just buying one of those switches that lets you bypass your loop would solve this? Know of any good ones?

    February 1, 2011 at 6:18 pm #114093
    Cryabetes
    Participant
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Some pedals using relays (like the Behringer ‘Vintage’ series, which are just plain EHX copies) might still give you signal, the way to check these is to turn the pedal on, remove the power, then hit the bypass switch, if you aint got signal, you aint got true-bypass.

    what?
    wouldn’t hitting the byp. switch with a relay bypass just do nothing [like, you’d still have signal]?

    Precisely, if it’s got a relay switch and it’s turned on, when you pull out the power jack the relay will be stuck there, so hitting the bypass switch now will not actually bypass the effect as the relay requires power to switch. This leaves you with no bypassed signal, you can then identify it as not being true bypass.

    If you had however bypassed the effect and then removed the power jack, in that order (which works for identifying buffered-bypass pedals), you’d still have signal as the relay would be stuck in bypass, some might argue that this is as-good-as true-bypass, as how much colouration can going through a relay really have on your signal? But still, if you’re gonna be anal about one thing, let it be your tone XD

    Maybe I worded it funny :p

    no i’m pretty sure you’ve got it wrong. the relay would switch back to bypass because there’s no longer power applied to it. ie, with a TB pedal, you can still turn off the signal. with a relay pedal, it’s always on bypass if you don’t have power to it.

    And a relay can’t color your tone any more than a switch can.

    February 1, 2011 at 7:03 pm #114095
    KartoonHead
    Member
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Quote:
    Some pedals using relays (like the Behringer ‘Vintage’ series, which are just plain EHX copies) might still give you signal, the way to check these is to turn the pedal on, remove the power, then hit the bypass switch, if you aint got signal, you aint got true-bypass.

    what?
    wouldn’t hitting the byp. switch with a relay bypass just do nothing [like, you’d still have signal]?

    Precisely, if it’s got a relay switch and it’s turned on, when you pull out the power jack the relay will be stuck there, so hitting the bypass switch now will not actually bypass the effect as the relay requires power to switch. This leaves you with no bypassed signal, you can then identify it as not being true bypass.

    If you had however bypassed the effect and then removed the power jack, in that order (which works for identifying buffered-bypass pedals), you’d still have signal as the relay would be stuck in bypass, some might argue that this is as-good-as true-bypass, as how much colouration can going through a relay really have on your signal? But still, if you’re gonna be anal about one thing, let it be your tone XD

    Maybe I worded it funny :p

    no i’m pretty sure you’ve got it wrong. the relay would switch back to bypass because there’s no longer power applied to it. ie, with a TB pedal, you can still turn off the signal. with a relay pedal, it’s always on bypass if you don’t have power to it.

    And a relay can’t color your tone any more than a switch can.

    I’ve gone and looked it up and either one of us could be right, depending on whether it’s a latching relay or not. I assumed they’d be latching as you use latching mechanical footswitches for your standard bypass, but your theory sounds more sensible as it’s like an extra feature; if the power goes out the pedal automatically bypasses itself so you can keep playing.

    And I agree with the relay colouring your tone just as much as a switch does, but as soon as you say something isn’t true-bypass many-a-tone-freak will stick their head back in the sand.

    February 1, 2011 at 7:52 pm #114096
    Cryabetes
    Participant

    there are latching relays?

    February 1, 2011 at 8:19 pm #114097
    KartoonHead
    Member

    Wikipedia says there is, and Wikipedia is God*.

    ‘A latching relay has two relaxed states (bistable). These are also called “impulse”, “keep”, or “stay” relays. When the current is switched off, the relay remains in its last state. This is achieved with a solenoid operating a ratchet and cam mechanism, or by having two opposing coils with an over-center spring or permanent magnet to hold the armature and contacts in position while the coil is relaxed, or with a remanent core. In the ratchet and cam example, the first pulse to the coil turns the relay on and the second pulse turns it off. In the two coil example, a pulse to one coil turns the relay on and a pulse to the opposite coil turns the relay off. This type of relay has the advantage that it consumes power only for an instant, while it is being switched, and it retains its last setting across a power outage. A remanent core latching relay requires a current pulse of opposite polarity to make it change state.’

    *God may not exist, but Wikipedia definitely does, so it makes sense to worship Wikipedia over God.

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