Home › Forums › Help/Technical Questions › Billy Corgan’s Muff pic! What version is it?!
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October 28, 2009 at 6:01 pm #79207visualdistortionMember
Billy Corgan has posted today a pic of his legendary Big Muff! I think it’s a versions 3, but don’t really know what exactly model is!
I think it’s an opamp version!October 28, 2009 at 6:23 pm #102781The EH ManModeratorCould be either a V3 or V4. You’d need to see inside to be sure.
October 28, 2009 at 6:35 pm #102783visualdistortionMemberIt will be hard to get the muff from Billy corgan… :p
October 28, 2009 at 7:19 pm #102786dmc777MemberIsn’t it most likely the op-amp version because of the ac on the top?
October 29, 2009 at 1:04 pm #102843visualdistortionMemberYes I finded with lot of pics that the big muff with AC on top are more probably OP AMP version
October 31, 2009 at 4:50 pm #103055firesgt911Memberhttp://glittercop.blogspot.com/2009/10/billy-talks-about-effect-pedals-used-on.html
Great link!
I am gonna go out on a limb here…as one of the people who chases the early pumpkins tone, I am going to say it is a V4. I come to this conclusion with the help of this page:
http://www.kitrae.net/music/big_muff_history.html
According to this, the V3’s still had the volume and sustain knobs mounted to the sides of the boards. If you look at the picture, he says that is the setting he used(with pencil marks).
It looks like he had his gain maxed out, volume in the middle and tone a little on the trebley side. This is a setting I tend to use(long before I saw this) when playing songs like “today.”
So, I think he used an OpAmp BM! Of course I could be wrong. I think if we can get this information out, then all of our OpAmp BM’s will be going for $500 on the bay! HAHAHA!
November 1, 2009 at 9:21 am #103089asalinascParticipanti got another picture of that bigmuff years ago
from the “machina” tourthat one has a small sticker on it (price tag) and the settings are almost close to that one except that the sustain is about 9′ o clock.
it’s known that siamese dream bigmuff was modified.
y can get the same tone with my modified USA version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5muCSCfhakE
sry for the mistakes but i was just testing it.
November 1, 2009 at 9:50 am #103090visualdistortionMemberI really don’t think that the corgan muff is modded, it’s normally a stock version… and OP AMP version sound apparently really close. But your mod sounds really cool… what is it? because I have a creamy dreamer muff but don’t sound like it!
November 1, 2009 at 10:11 am #103091Ned FlandersModeratorYeah that creamy dreamer kid lied out his ass and Corgan denied ever using a modified muff modded by him or anyone else.
November 1, 2009 at 10:22 am #103095devnulljpParticipantYes, I posted this the other day the other day. I have (or rather had; just sold both) both a v3 and a v4, and with the pots in that position, the sustain is at minimum on the v3 (which is a 3003 Ram’s Head inside) but max on the IC muff.
Here’s a pic of three of my muffs with all pots set to zero — the one in the middle is the v3 3003 w/ BC239Cs
You’ll notice, no AC at the top, although it did have an AC tap. The pic on Ron’s page has a v3 3003 with the “AC”All pots set to min:
All pots set to max:
L-R: v2 Lamb’s Head FS36999 (2N5088) 3003 | v3 red/black BC239C | 3034 v6 S2N5088 (tone bypass)
Here’s three IC muffs:
[IMG]”http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq123/devnulljp/Fuzz/Big Muffs/d8be2604.jpg”[/IMG]
L-R: v4 EH-3003B (1977) On/Off switch | v5 EH-3003 (1980) Tone Bypass switch | v5 EH1322 (1981) Tone Bypass switch
All have the “AC” on top.Here’s just the v4 EH3003B IC on/off
[IMG]”http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq123/devnulljp/Fuzz/Big Muffs/f2edbc60.jpg”[/IMG]Unless of course he’s taking the piss (very high possibility), or it’s something else inside that case, that could be a v4 IC Muff like the one above. The pic on Ron’s site of a v3 in that same box suggests it could still be a v3, although the pot positions don’t fit.
Why did this have to come out the week after I sold mine?
November 1, 2009 at 5:02 pm #103102firesgt911Member“Why did this have to come out the week after I sold mine?”
HAHAHA! I don’t mean to laugh at you, but that sounds like my kinda luck.
Oh, and +1, Sustain Punch wasn’t even making the Creamy Dreamer until like 1999. But you all know how rumors spread, especially on the net.
November 1, 2009 at 6:25 pm #103104electro-melxModeratorQuote:it’s known that siamese dream bigmuff was modified.Interesting….Billy’s said in two different interviews that I’ve read that it was just a standard muff that he walked into a shop and bought.. so who modified it and who ‘knows’ about it?
November 1, 2009 at 8:18 pm #103107asalinascParticipantQuote:I really don’t think that the corgan muff is modded, it’s normally a stock version… and OP AMP version sound apparently really close. But your mod sounds really cool… what is it? because I have a creamy dreamer muff but don’t sound like it!I’ve been testing and modding bigmuff since 12 years ago. Actually the bigmuff was the first pedal i’ve made. I was almost there when jeff doucette started that thread on the ampage forum requesting bigmuff mods..! (looong time ago) and u know the rest of the story (Creamy dreamer).
There are some V3 bigmuffs that contains the transistor version inside. The Circuit is a 1980 4 transistor NPN version of the bigmuff. This one is really close to the actual USA version with minor differences.
An OP-AMP bigmuff stock WAS used by corgan to record gish!. That’s the only close bigmuff that will give u that thin sound with lots of sustain.
However that bigmuff version won’t give that fat growl sustain that siamese dream has. That bigmuff has to be an either Version 1 or 2 bigmuff not another one.
I’ve tried almost all versions. I also have a Ram’s head modified Usa Version and it’s sounds cool but it lacks soo much bass and sounds more “refined” and friendly. The Triangle version has soo much bass response that saturates the pre-amp tubes badly so it starts compressing the sound giving you that smooth sound.
The clip i’ve posted before was recorded with heavier strings and a humbucker pickup on the brigde. That’s why it sounds sooo fat compared to siamese dream (even though i had to turn the bass almost completely off on the amp’s EQ). With lighter strings and single coils it will have more treble and edgy sound. That clip was recorded with a cheap.. cheap microphone. The amp (peavey ultragain) is similar to a JCM800 in design but uses 6L6 tubes on the output. Matches the theory that Corgan used a JCM800 with KT tubes on the power section and the bigmuff.
I’ve tried my usa modified with tons of amps and it gives me that close sound with peavey’s and marshall’s.
It gives me that same sound and harmonics from siamese dream, but that one doesn’t work for Gish stuff. that one has to be an stock op-amp version.
Blondegraemey has a few ones (including the op-amp version) , he test them on this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_tOY5uryU
Pictures of the 3rd issue bigmuff that corgan used on the machina tour
November 1, 2009 at 8:45 pm #103109asalinascParticipantthe closest unprocessed “bigmuff sound” u can hear it on
Mouth of babes or marquis in spades..
Check..
November 1, 2009 at 9:06 pm #103111Ned FlandersModeratorQuote:The Triangle version has soo much bass response that saturates the pre-amp tubes badly so it starts compressing the sound giving you that smooth sound.This is not entirely true (unless you have a “good” triangle muff with some 1uF’s in it and are basing your opinion on that alone) as the capacitors in triangle muffs,like any other vintage muff of the EXACT same model, vary by a factor of TEN from unit to unit giving absolutely ZERO consistency whatsoever.
Most examples of the trianle muff ya see online have 100nF caps in it but DEV has one with a few 1uF caps in it which is automatically going to give it more bass than the all 100nF versions that are somwhat more common. I’ve also seen other triangle versions with 1UF caps in it, so has Ron Neely…possibly the most experienced EHX man in the world!People often mistake the Sovtek muffs as being more bassy than the NYC RI big muff which is not true AT ALL, they are mistaking BOOMYNESS for BASS when there’s a difference. The reason the Sovtek muffs are boomy and not bassy is because they have a 47nf cap in both clipping stages 1 and 2 but only use 100nF caps in the rest of the circuit (3x560pF ‘s aside). The NYC RI uses 1uF caps and has 1uF caps in both clipping stages 1 and 2 hence,it is NOT boomy but it is bassy. Once you remove the 47nF caps from pretty much any Sovtek muff it becomes thinner like most triangle muffs and cannot compete for bass with the NYC RI or the 10uF input cap version ramshead muff or 77 and 78 (both identical besides on/off – tone bypass) IC muffs and the 1981 3034 muff.
Boomyness doesnt do chords real great, bassiness does do chords great.
The bassiest big muff to date is the NYC 3003-A RI muff as there’s not a 100nF cap to be found inside it. The 1981 3034 would be much the same or a very close second.
If a muff has 1uF caps and another only has 100nF the former is going to be bassier, its pretty simple.There was absolutely zero consistency in vintage big muff capacitor values and types, the earlier you go the worst it was and this is why I often say “I hate triangle muffs” because most examples I’ve heard and seen are the 100nF versions. I’ve also found the IC muffs more consistent than the transistor versions,not in parts type,no, they differ dramatically, but in values, they are pretty good for the year they were made.
Today, big muffs are consistent, there’s no problem there.
Also another thing people delude themself with is that the so called FS36999 is FAR superior than the 2N5088, fact is it IS a 2N5088.
There’s so much variation in big muffs and so much misinformation on the www about big muffs its a wonder ANYONE can make an informed decision about any muff purchase!
I know Ron and I at least try to correct this misinformation…but there’s not much we can do about the consistancy of vintage big muffs!
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